,

On this episode, Athena and Caroline are joined by Carl Charles as they discuss his work as a senior attorney at Lambda Legal and his journey as a trans advocate. Carl shares how his experiences as a teacher led him to pursue law, ultimately shaping his career in trans rights advocacy. He reflects on the challenges and triumphs he has encountered while fighting for LGBTQ+ civil rights, highlighting the importance of resilience and joy even in the face of adversity. The conversation also explores the ongoing legal battles affecting the transgender community, touching on identity documentation policies, anti-trans legislation, and the broader implications of restrictive laws.

Carl provides critical insights into the current landscape of trans rights, explaining how recent legal developments impact the community. He discusses the State Department’s gender marker policies, the rise of discriminatory bills in states like Texas, and the ongoing efforts to challenge these injustices through legal action. The discussion underscores the importance of staying informed and proactive, whether through updating legal documents or engaging in advocacy. Carl also shares practical advice for trans individuals navigating these challenges, encouraging them to seek legal support and community resources to protect their rights.

The episode concludes with a powerful conversation on resilience, representation, and advocacy. Carl emphasizes the strength of the transgender community and the necessity of collective action in pushing back against discrimination. He encourages listeners to stay engaged, support organizations like Lambda Legal, and use their voices to promote understanding and allyship. Athena and Caroline reflect on the importance of visibility and connection, reinforcing the message that despite the obstacles ahead, the fight for trans rights remains strong and unwavering.

“Carl Charles is a senior attorney at Lambda Legal, where he fights for the civil rights of LGBTQ+ people and those living with HIV. A dedicated advocate, Carl has worked on key legal cases that challenge discriminatory policies and protect the rights of transgender individuals. Before joining Lambda Legal, he worked at the ACLU and the New York City Commission on Human Rights. Carl’s legal expertise spans identity documentation, healthcare access, and employment protections for trans people. As a trans attorney himself, he brings both professional and personal insight to his work, striving to ensure legal equity and justice for the LGBTQ+ community.”

**

“Make it real to me” written by Athena Promachus, covered by Boy Bowser

The Trans Narrative was created, and produced by Caroline Penny, powered by Spotify for podcasters

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“This podcast ethically uses Chat GPT/Zoom AI to generate episode summaries, ensuring accuracy while maintaining the integrity and intent of our guests’ stories.”

Thank you for your support

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On this episode, Athena, Caroline, and Ellie have the pleasure of meeting Laurie Lee Hall, a transgender woman and former high-ranking member of the Mormon Church.

Laurie shares her remarkable journey of self-discovery, transition, and advocacy, highlighting the importance of community, support, and acceptance. Her story is one of resilience and courage, offering valuable insights into the experiences of transgender individuals within religious communities.

The group explores themes of identity, faith, and social justice, and delves into her memoir, "Dictates of Conscience." This powerful conversation sheds light on the importance of empathy, understanding, and acceptance.

“Laurie Lee Hall, a remarkable individual whose life journey has taken her from being a respected leader in the Mormon Church to becoming a powerful advocate for LGBTQ+ rights.

Laurie is a trans woman who has spent over two decades working as an architect, designing prominent buildings, including temples, for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. She has also served as a bishop and stake president within the church, working closely with senior church leaders.

However, Laurie's life took a dramatic turn when she came out as transgender and began her transition. She was subsequently excommunicated from the church, an experience that was both painful and liberating.

Today, Laurie is a sought-after speaker, advocate, and author. Her memoir, 'Dictates of Conscience: From Mormon High Priest to My New Life as a Woman,' has just been published, offering a powerful and deeply personal exploration of her life, faith, and identity.”

**

“Make it real to me” written by Athena Promachus, covered by Boy Bowser

“Old Religion” By Flamy Grant

The Trans Narrative was created, and produced by Caroline Penny, powered by Spotify for podcasters

If you’d like to reach out, or be apart of the show contact us at

“transnarrativepodcast@gmail.com”

Support and donations can be made to cash app tag $gottabesomthinmore

Find us Facebook, TikTok, and on Apple, Spotify, and iHeartRadio, or anywhere you listen to podcasts

Thank you for your support

Suicide Hotline 1-800-SUICIDE (784-2433)

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On this episode, Caroline, Della, and Honey are joined by Tia Mirage Hall as they discuss the challenges and fears surrounding the new political climate in 2025, with a focus on the increasing number of bills targeting the trans community and the potential for AI to systematically remove changes made to names legally.

The conversation delves into the rise of the alt-right and religious nationalism, the importance of providing accurate and factual information to counter misinformation and disinformation, and the need for grounding and support in the face of fear and uncertainty.

The group also shares their personal experiences and insights, highlighting the importance of community support and solidarity, while encouraging listeners to engage in meaningful discussions, build alliances, and advocate for the rights and well-being of trans individuals.

“Tia Mirage Hall is a renowned entertainer with a distinguished career spanning 24 years. As a prominent advocate for the transgender community, Tia utilizes her platform to raise awareness and promote equality for marginalized individuals.

A celebrated performer, Tia has held numerous prestigious titles, including Miss Gay Indiana, Queen of the Closet, and Circle City Regional. Her passion for entertainment serves as a cathartic outlet, allowing her to express and process her emotions through her performances.

As a black transgender woman, Tia embodies resilience, intelligence, and beauty. Her remarkable life and career serve as a testament to her strength and dedication to creating positive change within her community.”

**

“Make it real to me” written by Athena Promachus, covered by Boy Bowser

The Trans Narrative was created, and produced by Caroline Penny, powered by Spotify for podcasters

If you’d like to reach out, or be apart of the show contact us at

“transnarrativepodcast@gmail.com”

Support and donations can be made to cash app tag $gottabesomthinmore

Find us Facebook, TikTok, and on Apple, Spotify, and iHeartRadio, or anywhere you listen to podcasts

Thank you for your support

Suicide Hotline 1-800-SUICIDE (784-2433)

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On this episode, Athena and Caroline are joined by Quinn Dinsmore as they discuss Quinn's background in education and public health before transitioning into voice work, drawing from their family's radio background and personal journey with voice training.

Quinn discussed their unique approach to vocal coaching, emphasizing inclusivity, nervous system work, and the importance of personal practice while also sharing their plans for making voice lessons more accessible through scholarships and sliding scale pricing.

The conversation covers topics such as vocal dysphoria, nervous system work, and the importance of empathy and personal practice in voice development, with Quinn offering insights and advice for those seeking to explore their own voice and identity.

“Quinn is a nonbinary vocal coach with a testosterone influenced vocal tract who specializes in gender affirming voice practices. After receiving their bachelors of science in Public Health at Indiana University, they began their professional career teaching natural, social and environmental sciences through Zoos, Museums and State Parks.

They were introduced to the world affirming voice practices through their own gender journey. Falling head over heels with the work, they advanced from student to teacher, eventually opening and establishing their own business QVL in 2022.

Their lessons are client centered with a gender-expansive approach, teaching the skills necessary to feel affirmed in your voice and identity. While also providing the foundational skills necessary to ensure that your voice stays healthy as you modify the way you use it. Their goal is to empower individuals to express their authentic selves and provide crucial support in navigating the deeply personal journey of affirming voice work.”

https://www.qvoicelessons.com

qvoicelessons@gmail.com

**

“Make it real to me” written by Athena Promachus, covered by Boy Bowser

The Trans Narrative was created, and produced by Caroline Penny, powered by Spotify for podcasters

If you’d like to reach out, or be apart of the show contact us at

“transnarrativepodcast@gmail.com”

Support and donations can be made to cash app tag $gottabesomthinmore

Find us Facebook, TikTok, and on Apple, Spotify, and iHeartRadio, or anywhere you listen to podcasts

Thank you for your support

Suicide Hotline 1-800-SUICIDE (784-2433)

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American Foundation for low vision 212-502-7633.

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On this episode, Caroline and Kevin are joined by returning guest Flamy Grant as they delve into the intersections of faith, identity, and creativity. Flamy shares their journey from Christian music artist to full-time musician and drag artist, discussing the challenges and triumphs along the way.

Flamy opens up about their personal story, including the inspiration behind their new album "Church" and their song tribute to Leslie Jordan. They also share their experiences with the church and the impact of finding supportive community.

Flamy reflects on the importance of authenticity, self-acceptance, and resilience in the face of adversity. They discuss their commitment to representing and showing up for marginalized communities through their music and performances.

“Award-winning and Billboard-charting artist Flamy Grant is a shame-slaying, hip-swaying, singing-songwriting drag queen from Asheville, North Carolina. Her 2022 debut record, Bible Belt Baby, reached the #1 spot on the iTunes Christian Chart (the first drag performer to achieve this feat), was nominated for Best Pop Album at the San Diego Music Awards, and was named one of the Top Ten Queer Country Albums of 2023 by Rainbow Rodeo Magazine. Her single “Good Day” debuted at #20 on the Billboard Christian digital sales chart. Her 2024 sophomore album “CHURCH” reached #8 on the iTunes Country Chart.

Flamy is a winner of the 2023 Kerrville Folk Festival New Folk Competition, a 2023 QueerX Award nominee for Best Drag Artist, and a 2024 Queerty Award nominee for Drag Royalty. She is also a finalist for the 2025 International Folk Music Awards Artist of the Year and has been featured in Rolling Stone, Billboard,Entertainment Weekly, People, and more. Her music has over 1.2 million streams on Spotify, Apple, and Amazon music. A powerhouse vocalist and intrepid songwriter who blends folk, gospel, and roots, Flamy drags audiences into a therapeutic, theatrical mix of storytelling and song.

Armed with a bold lip and a blistering voice, Flamy is brilliant, resilient proof that nothing is sacred (but everything is holy) and shame belongs in the closet.”

**

“Make it real to me” written by Athena Promachus, covered by Boy Bowser

The Trans Narrative was created, and produced by Caroline Penny, powered by Spotify for podcasters

If you’d like to reach out, or be apart of the show contact us at

“transnarrativepodcast@gmail.com”

Support and donations can be made to cash app tag $gottabesomthinmore

Find us Facebook, TikTok, and on Apple, Spotify, and iHeartRadio, or anywhere you listen to podcasts

Thank you for your support

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On this episode Athena, Caroline, and Honey are joined by returning guest from season 3, Sasha Buchert as they discussed their concerns about the current political climate and its impact on the trans community, focusing on anti-trans legislation and the importance of solidarity and support.

They also discussed the current state of bills and executive orders affecting the transgender community, the implications of redefining gender, and the legal complexities faced by schools in complying with both state and federal laws.

The conversation ended with discussions on celebrating victories and positive changes in the community, strategies for dealing with the current political climate, and personal stories related to trans identities.

“Sasha Buchert is a Senior Attorney in the Washington D.C. office of Lambda Legal, the oldest and largest organization dedicated to advancing the civil rights of lesbians, gay men, bisexuals, transgender people and individuals living with HIV.

During her time at Lambda Legal, Sasha has been involved in extensive federal and state legislative and policy efforts on a wide range of issues including judicial nominations, criminal justice reform policy and health care initiatives. She is also litigating a number of cases expanding and solidifying federal civil rights protections for LGBTQ people. Most recently, she is counsel in Karnoski v. Trump, a federal lawsuit challenging the constitutionality of the Trump administration’s ban on military service by transgender people, and is counsel in Gore v. Lee, a federal lawsuit filed in Tennessee challenging that state’s refusal to amend birth certificates for transgender people.

Sasha has written about the legal issues facing LGBT people for publications including USA Today, Fox News, and Medium. She has appeared on the CNN, the PBS News Hour, C-SPAN, Newsy and Uprising.

Before joining Lambda Legal, Sasha served as Staff Attorney and Policy Counsel at Transgender Law Center. Sasha Buchert was the first openly transgender person to be appointed to an Oregon state board, and from 2012-13, she served as the chair of the Oregon State Hospital Advisory Board. She holds a J.D. from Willamette University. Sasha Buchert served proudly in the United States Marine Corps.”

**

“Make it real to me” written by Athena Promachus, covered by Boy Bowser

The Trans Narrative was created, and produced by Caroline Penny, powered by Spotify for podcasters

If you’d like to reach out, or be apart of the show contact us at

“transnarrativepodcast@gmail.com”

Support and donations can be made to cash app tag $gottabesomthinmore

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Thank you for your support

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On our season 4 premiere episode, Athena, Dr. Ann Pellegrini, and Caroline meet Honey Rose as they delve into the challenges and fears surrounding the current political climate, particularly for the transgender community. Our guest, Honey, shares their personal journey of self-discovery and acceptance, highlighting the importance of community support and understanding.

They also discuss the alarming rise of bills targeting the trans community, the potential dangers of AI in systematically removing protected statuses, and the impact of executive orders on LGBTQ+ rights. Additionally, they explore the importance of countering misinformation and disinformation, celebrating gender diversity, and finding solidarity in the face of adversity.

“Honey Rosasharn Jones is a historical sociologist and civil rights activist. Her work includes an in-depth study of the effects of Michael Brown's murder at the hands of a Ferguson, MO police officer on the citizens of North St. Louis County and partnering with ACLU Indiana as a member of the former Transgender Education Advocacy Program (TEAP). Previously, she has taught trauma coping and behavioral skills to children, facilitated support groups for transgender adults and youth, and pulls on her figurative "combat boots" daily to fight for the liberties of every American. Currently, she is monitoring national anti-transgender legislation and writing her memoirs.”

**

“Make it real to me” written by Athena Promachus, covered by Boy Bowser

The Trans Narrative was created, and produced by Caroline Penny, powered by Spotify for podcasters

If you’d like to reach out, or be apart of the show contact us at

“transnarrativepodcast@gmail.com”

Support and donations can be made to cash app tag $gottabesomthinmore

Find us Facebook, TikTok, and on Apple, Spotify, and iHeartRadio, or anywhere you listen to podcasts

Thank you for your support

Suicide Hotline 1-800-SUICIDE (784-2433)

S.A.F.E. (Self Abuse Finally Ends) 1-800-DONT-CUT

American Foundation for low vision 212-502-7633.

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Family Violence Prevention Center 1-800-313-1310

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On this episode Ari and Caroline are joined by returning guests Dr. Avgi Saketopoulou, Dr. Ann Pellegrini, and Dr Kriya Gishen as they continue discussing Gender without identity, what is means to be trans in a world that dictates so much of our lives, when gender is being used to control others, and how to find ourselves authentically in an unauthentic world.

Ave-hee"Last Name: "Sock-eh-to-poo-loo”Dr. Avgi Saketopoulou is a psychoanalyst in private practice in NYC and a member of the faculty at the NYU Postdoctoral Program in Psychotherapy and Psychoanalysis.

Ann's Bio (They/Them)Dr. Ann Pellegrini is Professor of Performance Studies & Social and Cultural Analysis at New York University, and a psychoanalyst in private practice in New York City. Their previous books include Performance Anxieties: Staging Psychoanalysis, Staging Race (Routledge, 1997) and the 2014 Lambda Finalist in Best LGBT Non-Fiction “You Can Tell Just by Looking” and 20 Other Myths About LGBT Life and People, coauthored with Michael Bronski and Michael Amico (Beacon Press, 2013).

Dr Kriya specializes in facial aesthetics and reconstruction. Her formal training in both the biological sciences and the visual arts was completed at Brown University and her surgical fellowship in Craniofacial reconstruction and facial aesthetics was completed at the University of California Los Angeles which is one of the oldest and most renowned craniofacial programs in the world.Dr Kriya’s skills embody the synergistic marriage of art and science. Today, she continues her academic pursuits by working as a voluntary faculty member at UCLA, where she works alongside leaders of the craniofacial field to train residents while providing care to pediatric and adult populations. At her private practice, she largely focuses on facial feminization and facial aesthetics; she has a particular passion for rhinoplasty, blepharoplasty and facial rejuvenation. However, with her background as a sculptor she also skillfully performs body contouring and breast procedures.https://www.drkriya.com/"TEXT Trans Narrative Consult to (310) 890-7262."

**

“Make it real to me” written by Athena Promachus, covered by Boy Bowser

The Trans Narrative was created, and produced by Caroline Penny, powered by Spotify for podcasters

If you’d like to reach out, or be apart of the show contact us at

“transnarrativepodcast@gmail.com”

Support and donations can be made to cash app tag $gottabesomthinmore

Find us Facebook, TikTok, and on Apple, Spotify, and iHeartRadio, or anywhere you listen to podcasts

Thank you for your support

Suicide Hotline 1-800-SUICIDE (784-2433)

S.A.F.E. (Self Abuse Finally Ends) 1-800-DONT-CUT

American Foundation for low vision 212-502-7633.

Trevor Hotline (Suicide) 1-866-4-U-TREVOR

Family Violence Prevention Center 1-800-313-1310

National Domestic Violence Hotline 1-800-799-SAFE

Drug Abuse National Helpline 1-800-662-4357

National Human Service Call Center 2-1-1