In this episode, Jemar Tisby takes us through the rich history of Black Christians fighting for justice in America. From Phillis Wheatley's powerful poetry to the legal strategy that toppled Jim Crow, Tisby highlights how the "spirit of justice" has driven Black Christians to resist oppression and work towards greater freedom. He emphasizes the crucial distinction between "slaveholder Christianity" and the true Christianity of Christ, which compels us to love our neighbor. Tisby stresses the importance of maintaining a "smoke detector" mentality - staying vigilantly engaged in the ongoing struggle for justice. Ultimately, Tisby's message is one of hope and inspiration. By studying the stories of those who've gone before, we can tap into that same spirit of justice and keep moving the needle towards a more righteous and equitable society.

Jemar Tisby is the author of the New York Times bestselling book, The Color of Compromise: The Truth about the Church's Complicity in Racism, How to Fight Racism, How to Fight Racism: Young Reader's Edition, and his latest The Spirit of Justice. He is also a Professor of History at Simmons College of Kentucky in Louisville. Jemar has been a co-host of the "Pass the Mic" podcast since its inception seven years ago. His writing has been featured in the Washington Post, The Atlantic, and the New York Times among others. He is a frequent commentator on outlets such as NPR and CNN's New Day program. He speaks nationwide on the topics of racial justice, U.S. history and Christianity. Jemar earned his PhD in history and he studies race, religion, and social movements in the 20th century. You can follow his work through his newsletter, Footnotes, and on social media at @JemarTisby.

Jemar's Book:
The Spirit of Justice

Jemar's Recommendation:
Disarming Leviathan

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This conversation with Karl Vaters is a fascinating look at the history and impact of the Church Growth Movement in America and around the world. Karl shares how the movement started with good intentions to reach more people for Christ, but over time it became an unhealthy obsession with numerical growth and bigger churches. The danger is that we've often confused numerical size with spiritual health. Karl challenges us to shift our focus away from just growing the numbers, and instead prioritize discipleship and integrity in our churches. He believes discipleship can fix most problems a church faces, because it's about developing mature followers of Jesus, not just filling seats. Additionally, Karl warns against the celebrity culture that has crept into the church, where we elevate certain pastors and put them on a pedestal. Instead, he advocates for a return to more collaborative, team-based leadership that equips the whole body for ministry. Overall, this was a thought-provoking conversation that calls the church back to its biblical foundations of making disciples, walking in integrity, and letting Jesus build his church. Join us as we de-size the church.

Karl Vaters is the author of five books, including the brand-new De-Sizing the Church. Karl produces resources for Helping Small Churches Thrive at KarlVaters.com. His heart is to help pastors of small churches (up to 90 percent of us) find the resources to lead well, and to capitalize on the unique advantages that come with pastoring a small church – something virtually every pastor will spend at least some of their ministry years doing. He also believes that big and small churches can and should work together more often – to the benefit and blessing of everyone.

Karl also hosts a bi-weekly podcast, The Church Lobby: Conversations on Faith & Ministry. Episodes feature in-depth interviews about the topics that concern pastors, especially those who minister in a small church context.

Karl has served in small-church ministry for over 40 years, so he speaks and writes from decades of hands-on pastoral experience.

Karl's Book:
De-Sizing the Church

Karl's Recommendation:
The Great Dechurching

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This conversation with Jonny Morrison explores a holistic, relational understanding of the gospel and sin. Jonny shares how his personal story of loss and doubt led him to rediscover the good news of Jesus as a revelation of God's relentless love and restoration. He unpacks how sin is best understood as missing the mark of love, rather than just breaking arbitrary moral laws. Johnny emphasizes the importance of storytelling, community, and participating in God's work of healing generational trauma. Jonny highlights how the parable of the prodigal son illuminates the gospel's message of relationship, belonging, and transformation. Join us as we discover the good news of Jesus all over again.

Jonny Morrison is co-lead pastor at Missio Dei in Salt Lake City, Utah, responsible for teaching and vision. He’s passionate about helping people gain a bigger imagination for God, experience the radical love of Jesus, and learn to see and join God’s work in their everyday lives. Jonny has a master’s degree in exegetical studies from Western Seminary and a doctorate in contextual theology from Northern Seminary. Jonny is the author of Light as Air and his newest book, Prodigal Gospel.

Jonny's Book:
Prodigal Gospel

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In this wide-ranging conversation, Khristi Lauren Adams, author of "Womanish Theology," discusses her personal journey of discovering God through the lens of black girlhood. She reflects on the importance of integrating one's lived experiences with theological study, and how viewing Scripture and theology through diverse cultural perspectives can deepen our understanding of the divine. Adams shares insights from her interviews with young black girls, highlighting their unique perspectives on salvation, prayer, and the presence of God in the face of suffering and evil. She emphasizes the need for empathy, openness, and a willingness to learn from marginalized voices, rather than imposing one's own agenda or beliefs. We explore themes of identity, community, and the universal truths found in Jesus' teachings, underscoring the potential for reconciliation and redemption when we approach theological inquiry with humility and a spirit of curiosity. Join us as we discover God through the lens of black girlhood.

Khristi Lauren Adams is a speaker, author, youth advocate and ordained Baptist minister. Khristi is the author of Parable of the Brown Girl, Unbossed: How Black Girls Are Leading the Way and its middle grade version Black Girls Unbossed: Young World Changers Leading the Way. The books are published by Broadleaf and Beaming Books. Parable of the Brown Girl has received awards for Best Young Adult Book from The African American Literary Awards and the New York Black Librarians Caucus. Unbossed was a 2023 runner up for the Los Angeles Book Festival and Black Girls Unbossed is a 2023 finalist for a Foreword INDIES Book of the Year award in the Juvenile Nonfiction category. Khristi is the Executive Director of Community and Belonging for the St. Paul’s School’s, a family of independent schools in Baltimore County, MD. She previously worked as Dean of Spiritual Life & Equity and instructor of Religious Studies at the Hill School. Khristi is a graduate of Temple University with a degree in Advertising and a graduate of Princeton Theological Seminary where she obtained a Master of Divinity degree.

Khristi's Book:
Womanish Theology

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This conversation with Lisa was recorded in June just a week after the bombing of Rafah – a refugee camp – a place that was supposed to provide safety from the war. In this conversation, Lisa Sharon Harper covers some incredibly important and challenging topics. We hear Lisa speak passionately about the need for humility - recognizing that we are not God, but rather are created in God's image and called to be stewards of the earth. She then dove deep into the current crisis in Israel and Palestine, expressing grave concerns about the potential for genocide and the urgent need for the international community to intervene. What really struck me was Lisa's call for the church to be a prophetic voice, speaking out against injustice even when it means challenging the actions of powerful nations. She challenges the simplistic theological views that have given Israel a "blank check," and instead urges us to apply biblical principles of justice, compassion, and care for all people. Ultimately, Lisa reminds us of the importance of dreaming and imagining a better future, rather than being deadened by the realities of authoritarianism and oppression. This is the kind of hopeful, prophetic witness that the world so desperately needs right now. Join us as we reckon with injustice and find ways to be peacemakers in our own contexts in conflicts around the world.

Lisa Sharon Harper is the founder and president of Freedom Road, a groundbreaking consulting group that crafts experiences that bring common understanding and common commitments that lead to common action toward a more just world. Lisa is a public theologian whose writing, speaking, activism and training has sparked and fed the fires of re-formation in the church from Ferguson and Charlottesville to South Africa, Brazil, Australia and Ireland. Lisa’s book, Fortune: How Race Broke My Family And The World--And How To Repair It All was named one of the “Best Books of 2022” and The Very Good Gospel was named 2016 “Book of the Year” by Englewood Review of Books. Lisa is a board member of The Justice Revival—the leading organization of the #Faith4ERA campaign. An Auburn Senior Fellow, Lisa is also proud to join the inaugural cohort of the Aspen Institute Racial Justice and Religion Collective. The Huffington Post identified Lisa as one of 50 Women Religious Leaders to Celebrate on International Women’s Day. Lisa is host of the Freedom Road Podcast, cohost of The FOUR Podcast and author of her weekly column, “The Truth Is…”, on Freedom Road Substack.

Lisa's Books:
Fortune
The Very Good Gospel

Lisa's Recommendation:
100 Years War on Palestine

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In my conversation with Brady Boyd we talk about unity, healing divisions, and keeping the main thing the main thing in the church. Brady shares his experience leading New Life Church in Colorado Springs through a tumultuous season of moral failure and violence, and how they were able to rebuild unity and see a spiritual revival by focusing on serving others, maintaining curiosity, and keeping their eyes fixed on Jesus. We discuss the dangers of social media silos, the importance of peacemaking, and practical ways for pastors and church leaders to address cultural issues while fostering unity. Join us as we seek to build bridges and keep the body of Christ united in a divided world.

Brady Boyd and Pam have been married for more than three decades and are parents to an adult son and daughter, Abram and Callie. The author of seven books–Life-Minded, Remarkable, Speak Life, Fear No Evil, Addicted to Busy, Let Her Lead, Sons & Daughters, and Extravagant–he is passionate about caring for the people of Colorado Springs by presenting the Good News of the Gospel, teaching God’s Word with clarity, and providing practical aid through the numerous Dream Centers he’s helped to open.

He has a degree in Journalism from Louisiana Tech, has been a radio announcer for professional baseball and basketball teams, and was the Sports Editor for his college newspaper. Before coming to New Life in 2007, he served in senior-leadership ministry roles at churches in West and North Texas.

Brady's Book:
Life-Minded
Life-Minded Bible Study

Brady's Recommendations:
When a Crocodile Eats the Sun

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In this conversation, Jamie Winship talks about the importance of finding true identity in God and community, rather than in individual performance or achievement. We discuss how fear and shame can lead to false identities, and how addressing the root causes of these negative emotions through prayer and imagination can help people find freedom and peace. We talk through how true identity and addressing the real fear we have can help untie the knots of conflicts and bring needed peace. We touch on the role of group identities, the dangers of radical individualism, and how addressing injustice and restoring what has been stolen can help overcome depression and other mental health challenges. Join us and walk in your true identity.

Jamie Winship has decades of experience bringing peaceful solutions to some of the world’s highest conflict areas.

After a distinguished career in law enforcement in the metro Washington DC area, Jamie earned an MA in English and developed a unique process called the Identity Method. This process of identity transformation is the key to resolving inner conflict and acquiring new levels of learning and creativity. His unconventional efforts to bring about societal and racial reconciliation led him to Indonesia, Jordan, Iraq, Palestine, Israel and back to the U.S.

Jamie has worked with leaders in professional sports, business, education, law enforcement, government, non-profit, and other sectors. He is the author of the book Living Fearless.

Jamie and his wife, Donna, are co-founders of Identity Exchange, a training and consulting agency that helps individuals and teams discover new levels of creativity and resiliency within the framework of true identity.

Jamie's Book:
Living Fearless

Register for Further Together and the Identity Exchange workshop at All Nations KC: allnations.us

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In this conversation, Tod Bolsinger provides a thoughtful exploration of the challenges and opportunities facing leaders in a rapidly changing world. He shares insights on the importance of adaptability, humility, and a willingness to learn and experiment in the face of crisis and uncertainty. He discusses the need for leaders to shift their values, attitudes, and behaviors to effectively navigate change, while also centering marginalized voices and maintaining a focus on the core mission. We cover topics such as the role of trust and transformation in leadership, the evolving nature of discipleship, and the importance of crafting a clear and concise mission statement. Overall, this conversation offers valuable guidance for leaders seeking to lead their organizations and communities through times of profound change.

Tod Bolsinger is the founder and principal at AE Sloan Leadership Inc., the executive director of the DePree Center Church Leadership Institute, and associate professor of leadership formation at Fuller Seminary. He is the author of Canoeing the Mountains and Tempered Resilience. His latest books are the Practicing Change series. Tod and his wife, Beth, split their time between Pasadena, California, and Ketchum, Idaho.

Tod's Books:
Practicing Change series

Tod's website:
AE Sloan Leadership


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