What happens when the institutions we’ve trusted start to crumble and we realize they were never meant to carry the weight we gave them? Today, I’m joined by Angie Ward. She invites us into a deep reimagining of the Church, not just as a building or an organization, but as a Spirit-formed people living on mission together. Angie has spent decades in both church and parachurch worlds, and she brings hard-won wisdom and clarity to a question many of us are asking right now: what is the Church supposed to be? We talk about the historical split between church and parachurch, what it would look like to move from siloed excellence to shared mission, and why this cultural moment might be the perfect time to rethink everything - not out of panic, but out of trust. We discuss institutional collapse, missional ecosystems, scarcity vs. abundance, and how to step into new paradigms when the old ones stop working. If you’re sensing the shaking in the foundations and wondering what’s next for the people of God, join us as we imagine an ecosystem of missional extensions.

Angie Ward (PhD, Southern Baptist Theological Seminary) is director of the Doctor of Ministry program and associate professor of leadership and ministry at Denver Seminary. She is the author of Uncharted Leadership: 20 Case Studies to Help Ministry Leaders Adapt to Uncertainty and I Am a Leader: When Women Discover the Joy of Their Calling. Angie has over thirty-five years of leadership experience in church, nonprofit, and higher education ministry. A sportswriter in a previous life, Angie loves running, basketball, humor, and movies. She and her pastor-husband live in Denver. They have two grown sons and one very spoiled beagle.

Angie's Book:

Beyond Church and Parachurch

Angie's Recommendations:

Good Authority

Competing Against Luck

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Today, we have a powerful and deeply honest conversation with Naeem Fazal, author of "Tomorrow Needs You." Naeem grew up in Kuwait in a Pakistani Muslim family, survived the Gulf War, and eventually found himself in the U.S. grappling with questions of identity, fear, and faith. What followed was a series of raw, spiritual encounters that opened his heart to Jesus in ways he never expected. In our conversation, we talk about what it means to find hope when everything feels lost. Naeem shares how the beauty of Jesus began to reshape his story, and why perfect love, not just faith, is what truly drives out fear. We explore the idea that hope isn't something we chase after, but something the Holy Spirit grows within us. This conversation is a reminder that beauty matters, that creating something - even something small - can pull us into the presence of God, and that tomorrow does, in fact, need you. Join us as we create something beautiful.

Naeem Fazal, a Pakistani, was born and raised in Kuwait. He grew up in a Muslim family, was a teenager in the midst of the Gulf War, and came to the United States in 1992. He had a supernatural experience with Christ that changed the course of his life. He is the author of Ex-Muslim and Tomorrow Needs You, and the founding pastor of Mosaic Church in Charlotte, NC. Naeem and his wife Ashley have two amazing children and unfortunately two cats.

Naeem's Book:

Tomorrow Needs You

Naeem's Recommendations:

Culture Care

Lust for Life

The War of Art

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What comes to mind when you hear “Holy Spirit”? For some of us, it’s confusion, baggage, or maybe just silence. We’ve either over-sensationalized it or under-taught it. But what if we’ve missed the depth and presence of the Spirit because we’ve skipped the beginning of the story? In this conversation, I talk with Margaret Feinberg about rediscovering the Holy Spirit - not just in Acts 2, but from the very beginning, hovering over the chaos in Genesis. Margaret invites us to see the Spirit not as some vague force that shows up only in ecstatic moments, but as a deeply personal, present, creative force that’s always been at work - in beauty, in community, in dreams, in discernment, in the ordinary and the extraordinary. We talk about how the Spirit empowers us for creativity, nudges us toward each other, and invites us to live attentive lives. We tell stories of the Spirit’s work across cultures and in everyday moments. So join us as we discover that the Holy Spirit is closer than air we breathe.

Margaret Feinberg, one of America’s most beloved Bible teachers, speaks at churches and conferences and hosts the popular podcast The Joycast. Her books and Bible studies, including Taste and See and More Power to You, have sold more than one million copies and received critical acclaim and national media coverage from the Associated Press, USA Today, Los Angeles Times, Washington Post, and more. She was named by Christianity Today as one of fifty women most shaping culture and the church today. Margaret savors life with her husband, Leif, and their superpup, Zoom.

Margaret's Book:

The God You Need to Know

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Through meaningful interviews and heartfelt conversations, Friar Time, hosted by Fr....

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Through meaningful interviews and heartfelt conversations, Friar Time, hosted by Fr....

Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify

Support the show