What happens when the gospel you were handed no longer makes sense of the pain, beauty, or complexity of the world you’re actually living in? In this conversation, I sit down with Nicholas McDonald, pastor and author of The Light in Our Eyes, to explore the tensions between disillusionment and hope, escape and embodiment, cynicism and renewal. Nicholas brings a pastor’s heart, a theologian’s depth, and the honesty of someone who’s wrestled with real questions and has found the freedom, beauty, and love that Jesus can bring. We talk about what 40 million people walking away from the church actually means, why so many are rejecting not Jesus, but a culture of fear and power, and how the recovery of ancient practices, communal faith, and a more embodied gospel could help us reimagine the way forward. From Zechariah’s silence to Jim Henson’s Muppets, from dispensational escape theology to communion as resistance - this conversation covers a lot of ground, and all of it matters. So join us as we find the light of Christ has been present all along.

Nicholas McDonald is the Associate Pastor at Redeemer Presbyterian church in central Indianapolis and has served in ministry for over fifteen years. His previous positions have included roles in youth ministry and four years as the Campus Minister of Reformed University Fellowship at the University of Missouri. McDonald received his degree from Gordon Conwell Seminary and studied creative writing at Oxford University. He's the author of Faker, and the forthcoming book "The Light in Our Eyes: Rediscovering the Love, Beauty and Freedom of Jesus in an Age of Disillusionment". He lives in Indianapolis with his wife and their three children.

Nicholas' Book:

The Light in Our Eyes

Nicholas' Recommendation:

The Meaning of Singleness

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What happens when the institutions we’ve trusted start to crumble and we realize they were never meant to carry the weight we gave them? Today, I’m joined by Angie Ward. She invites us into a deep reimagining of the Church, not just as a building or an organization, but as a Spirit-formed people living on mission together. Angie has spent decades in both church and parachurch worlds, and she brings hard-won wisdom and clarity to a question many of us are asking right now: what is the Church supposed to be? We talk about the historical split between church and parachurch, what it would look like to move from siloed excellence to shared mission, and why this cultural moment might be the perfect time to rethink everything - not out of panic, but out of trust. We discuss institutional collapse, missional ecosystems, scarcity vs. abundance, and how to step into new paradigms when the old ones stop working. If you’re sensing the shaking in the foundations and wondering what’s next for the people of God, join us as we imagine an ecosystem of missional extensions.

Angie Ward (PhD, Southern Baptist Theological Seminary) is director of the Doctor of Ministry program and associate professor of leadership and ministry at Denver Seminary. She is the author of Uncharted Leadership: 20 Case Studies to Help Ministry Leaders Adapt to Uncertainty and I Am a Leader: When Women Discover the Joy of Their Calling. Angie has over thirty-five years of leadership experience in church, nonprofit, and higher education ministry. A sportswriter in a previous life, Angie loves running, basketball, humor, and movies. She and her pastor-husband live in Denver. They have two grown sons and one very spoiled beagle.

Angie's Book:

Beyond Church and Parachurch

Angie's Recommendations:

Good Authority

Competing Against Luck

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Today, we have a powerful and deeply honest conversation with Naeem Fazal, author of "Tomorrow Needs You." Naeem grew up in Kuwait in a Pakistani Muslim family, survived the Gulf War, and eventually found himself in the U.S. grappling with questions of identity, fear, and faith. What followed was a series of raw, spiritual encounters that opened his heart to Jesus in ways he never expected. In our conversation, we talk about what it means to find hope when everything feels lost. Naeem shares how the beauty of Jesus began to reshape his story, and why perfect love, not just faith, is what truly drives out fear. We explore the idea that hope isn't something we chase after, but something the Holy Spirit grows within us. This conversation is a reminder that beauty matters, that creating something - even something small - can pull us into the presence of God, and that tomorrow does, in fact, need you. Join us as we create something beautiful.

Naeem Fazal, a Pakistani, was born and raised in Kuwait. He grew up in a Muslim family, was a teenager in the midst of the Gulf War, and came to the United States in 1992. He had a supernatural experience with Christ that changed the course of his life. He is the author of Ex-Muslim and Tomorrow Needs You, and the founding pastor of Mosaic Church in Charlotte, NC. Naeem and his wife Ashley have two amazing children and unfortunately two cats.

Naeem's Book:

Tomorrow Needs You

Naeem's Recommendations:

Culture Care

Lust for Life

The War of Art

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What comes to mind when you hear “Holy Spirit”? For some of us, it’s confusion, baggage, or maybe just silence. We’ve either over-sensationalized it or under-taught it. But what if we’ve missed the depth and presence of the Spirit because we’ve skipped the beginning of the story? In this conversation, I talk with Margaret Feinberg about rediscovering the Holy Spirit - not just in Acts 2, but from the very beginning, hovering over the chaos in Genesis. Margaret invites us to see the Spirit not as some vague force that shows up only in ecstatic moments, but as a deeply personal, present, creative force that’s always been at work - in beauty, in community, in dreams, in discernment, in the ordinary and the extraordinary. We talk about how the Spirit empowers us for creativity, nudges us toward each other, and invites us to live attentive lives. We tell stories of the Spirit’s work across cultures and in everyday moments. So join us as we discover that the Holy Spirit is closer than air we breathe.

Margaret Feinberg, one of America’s most beloved Bible teachers, speaks at churches and conferences and hosts the popular podcast The Joycast. Her books and Bible studies, including Taste and See and More Power to You, have sold more than one million copies and received critical acclaim and national media coverage from the Associated Press, USA Today, Los Angeles Times, Washington Post, and more. She was named by Christianity Today as one of fifty women most shaping culture and the church today. Margaret savors life with her husband, Leif, and their superpup, Zoom.

Margaret's Book:

The God You Need to Know

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Terry Crist returns to Shifting Culture to talk about the transformative power of rest, the necessity of Sabbath, and finding true refuge in God. Terry, an experienced pastor and insightful communicator, helps us rethink productivity, loneliness, bitterness, and forgiveness, inviting us into a deeper relationship with God's perfect love. In this episode, you'll discover how to shift your approach to rest, see productivity as a natural outflow of abiding in God, and break free from cycles of striving and bitterness. Join us for a meaningful conversation that will leave you with renewed peace, purpose, and perspective.

Terry Crist is the co-lead pastor of City of Grace in Phoenix alongside his wife, Judith. He has a Th.M. and a D.Min. and has a business certificate in nonprofit management from Harvard Business School. Terry is also passionate about community transformation and promotes adoption and foster care through his work in state government. An avid outdoorsman and gifted communicator, he has adventured and preached the gospel in 65 nations. Terry and Judith have three married sons and four grandchildren. They live in Arizona.

Terry's Book:

Now You Can Stop Running

Terry's Recommendations:

Crushing Chaos

A Teachable Spirit

Lit Up With Love

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In this conversation with Emanuel Prinz, we dig into his latest research, exploring what actually catalyzes movements, the kinds of leaders and teams that sustain them, and what blocks them from taking root. We’ll talk about the personal and spiritual qualities of movement catalysts, why reproducibility matters more than charisma, and how partnering with God, rather than simply following a method—is essential to see lasting fruit. Along the way, we wrestle with questions of multiplication, DNA, and the risks of bottleneck leadership. If you care about genuine spiritual movement, if you want to see communities transformed and leaders multiplied, not just in theory but in practice, you won’t want to miss this episode. So join us because this conversation is packed with wisdom and hard-won insight for anyone longing to shift culture in meaningful ways.

DR. EMANUEL PRINZ has partnered with God to start a movement in North Africa and speaks from personal experience. He has researched kingdom Christian movements across the globe for fifteen years. Currently, he serves ministries worldwide as an expert movement consultant, coach, trainer, and researcher, facilitating their progression toward movements. Through his Exponential Disciple-Making and MOVES Coaching trainings, more than 12,000 leaders in over fifty countries have been equipped.
Prinz has taught at Columbia International University, the European School for Culture and Theology, and Bethany Global University. He is the author of Movement Catalysts and numerous articles in journals such as Missiology, Evangelical Missions Quarterly, Global Missiology, Journal of the Evangelical Missiological Society, Mission Frontiers, as well as in Christianity Today. Above all, he seeks to live as the Father’s beloved.
He blogs at www.catalyticleadership.info.

Emanuel's Book:

What Actually Starts Movements

Emanuel's Recommendation:

The Forgotten Ways

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For a lot of people, Revelation is the Bible’s great mystery—full of wild images and swirling predictions, often left to collect dust or to stir up arguments about the end times. But beneath all the confusion, Revelation also speaks to something deeply human: our ache for intimacy, our struggle with loneliness, and our longing to know that God is closer than we think. Today I’m joined by Dr. Shane J. Wood - professor, theologian, and author of Thinning the Veil. Shane has spent decades steeped in Revelation, not as a codebook for the future, but as a guide for living with honesty and presence right now. His approach is all about transformation: what does it mean to let the way of Jesus reshape our identity, our relationships, and the way we move through a world that often feels disconnected? In this conversation, we dive into how loneliness touches us all, how the presence of God can feel just out of reach, and how the message of Revelation invites us to draw near—to God and to one another. We talk about the cycles of power and fear that keep us apart, and how worship and vulnerability can open the door to real, embodied intimacy. If you’ve ever wondered where God is in the middle of your isolation, or if faith can make a difference in our deepest places of longing, I invite you to listen as we peel back the layers and look for the thin places—where heaven and earth meet, and where we discover what it means to be fully known and fully loved. So join us.

Shane J. Wood (PhD, University of Edinburgh) is professor of New Testament and Its Origins at Ozark Christian College. In addition to speaking at churches and conferences worldwide, Shane produces a variety of audio, video, and written resources available at shanejwood.com. He is the author of multiple books, with his most recent book entitled "Thinning the Veil: Encountering Jesus Christ in the Book of Revelation" (IVP). Shane and his wife, Sara, have four children and live in southwest Missouri.

Shane's Book:

Thinning the Veil

Shane's Recommendations:

My Inventions

Notes From the Underground

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Charisma is a word we hear all the time, but what does it really mean? Why are some leaders able to draw people in, while others push us away? I’ve been fascinated by this for years, wondering why we’re drawn to certain people, what makes us follow, and how charisma shapes our lives in ways we don’t always notice. In a culture where stories and leaders are constantly competing for our attention, understanding charisma feels more urgent than ever. That’s why I’m excited to talk with Molly Worthen. Molly is a historian and journalist whose new book, Spellbound, digs deep into the history of charisma in America. She traces how charisma has played out from the era of the Puritans and prophets, through conquerors, agitators, and experts, all the way to today’s age of gurus and influencers. Each era reveals something about what we long for—and what we risk—when we put our trust in charismatic leaders. In this episode, we explore what charisma actually is, how it both unites and divides, and how these waves of charismatic movements have shaped our culture and our faith. We’ll talk about the stories that draw us in, the identities we build, and how to stay grounded as followers of Jesus when everything around us feels like it’s shifting. If you’re trying to figure out who to trust, how to stay rooted, or just want to make sense of all the noise, this conversation is for you.

Molly Worthen is a professor of history at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and a freelance journalist. She teaches courses on North American religion and politics, global Christianity, and the history of ideas. She writes on these themes for The New York Times and has contributed to The New Yorker, Slate, The American Prospect, Foreign Policy, and other publications. She has also created video and audio courses on the history of Christianity and the history of charismatic leadership for the Great Courses and Audible. Her previous books are Apostles of Reason: The Crisis of Authority in American Evangelicalism and The Man on Whom Nothing Was Lost: The Grand Strategy of Charles Hill.

Molly's Book:

Spellbound

Molly's Recommendations:

The Sparrow

Children of God

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