Today, we're exploring the hidden history of women in ministry through the lens of the pastor's wife role. Historian Beth Allison Barr takes us on a journey that challenges everything we think we know about women's leadership in the church. We'll trace how women went from being active leaders in the early Christian church to being systematically pushed out of ministry. Barr reveals how the pastor's wife role evolved from a radical act of Protestant resistance to a complex system that both empowered and constrained women. The conversation digs into some tough terrain - how complementarian theology has created environments where women's ministry is limited, and in some cases, where abuse has been hidden. But it's not just a story of limitation. It's a powerful call for reimagining how men and women can work together in ministry. At its heart, this is a conversation about breaking down barriers, recognizing historical complicity, and creating spaces where all people can fully express their calling - regardless of gender. We'll explore how the Southern Baptist Convention became a flashpoint for these debates, why ordination became a weapon against women's leadership, and most importantly, how we might move forward toward mutual flourishing in church communities. Get ready for a conversation that challenges, enlightens, and offers a hopeful vision for the future of ministry.

Beth Allison Barr (PhD, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill) is James Vardaman Endowed Chair of History at Baylor University in Waco, Texas, where she specializes in medieval history, women’s history, and church history. She is the author of the USA Today bestseller The Making of Biblical Womanhood: How the Subjugation of Women Became Gospel Truth. Her work has been featured by NPR and the New Yorker, and she has written for Christianity Today, the Washington Post, The Dallas Morning News, Sojourners, and Baptist News Global. Barr lives in Texas with her husband, a Baptist pastor, and their two children.

Beth's Book:

Becoming the Pastor's Wife

Beth's Recommendations:

The Anti-Greed Gospel

We Refuse

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In our current moment of cultural fragmentation and existential anxiety, the traditional frameworks of engagement feel increasingly inadequate. Andrew Root's latest work, “Evangelism in an Age of Despair” isn't just a theological treatise, or a how-to evangelism book, but a profound meditation on human connection in an age of profound disconnection. What happens when we shift our understanding of evangelism from a transactional model of belief to a relational practice of genuine with-ness? Andy suggests something more radical than conversion: a form of spiritual presence that honors the complexity of human suffering. We're living through an era where loneliness has become a systemic condition, where happiness is marketed as a consumable product, and where genuine human vulnerability is increasingly rare. Root's approach doesn't offer easy solutions, but instead proposes a more nuanced engagement with our collective pain. This conversation is less about religious doctrine and more about the fundamental human need for meaningful connection - a need that transcends ideological boundaries and touches something more elemental about how we understand ourselves and each other. Join us as we seek the consolation of Christ in the desolation of our lives.

Andrew Root (Ph.D., Princeton Theological Seminary) is the Carrie Olson Baalson professor of youth and family ministry at Luther Seminary in St. Paul, Minnesota.

Andrew Root is the Carrie Olson Baalson Professor of Youth and Family Ministry at Luther Seminary, USA. He writes and researches in areas of theology, ministry, culture and younger generations. His most recent books are Churches and the Crisis of Decline (Baker, 2022), The Congregation in a Secular Age (Baker, 2021), The End of Youth Ministry? (Baker, 2020), The Pastor in a Secular Age: Ministry to People Who No Longer Need God (Baker, 2019), Faith Formation in a Secular Age (Baker, 2017), and Exploding Stars, Dead Dinosaurs, and Zombies: Youth Ministry in the Age of Science (Fortress Press, 2018). Andy has worked in congregations, parachurch ministries, and social service programs. He lives in St. Paul with his wife Kara, two children, Owen and Maisy, and their dog. When not reading, writing, or teaching, Andy spends far too much time watching TV and movies.

Andrew's Book:
Evangelism in an Age of Despair

Andrew's Recommendation:
Severance

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Matthew Bates joins us today to work out salvation. What is it? What have we got wrong? In our contemporary moment, we find ourselves wrestling with a profound misunderstanding of the gospel - a narrative that has been truncated, individualized, and stripped of its royal, communal essence. The gospel is not merely a personal transaction about individual salvation, but a comprehensive royal announcement about Jesus the Christ. For too long, both Protestant and Catholic traditions have inadvertently narrowed the expansive biblical vision of salvation. We've reduced faith to mental assent or ritualistic practice, when in reality, faith is fundamentally about allegiance - a comprehensive, embodied loyalty to King Jesus that transforms not just individuals, but entire communities and, ultimately, all of creation. Matthew seeks to recover a more holistic understanding. We are saved not just from something, but for something: the full restoration of our image-bearing capacity, the renewal of God's glory in and through us. This isn't about personal spiritual escapism, but about participating in a cosmic restoration project. In our conversation today, we'll explore how reimagining salvation as allegiance can bridge denominational divides, challenge our narcissistic cultural assumptions, and invite us into a more profound understanding of discipleship. We're not just talking about theological abstractions, but about a transformative way of being in the world. Prepare to have your understanding of the gospel radically expanded.

Matthew W. Bates is Professor of New Testament at Northern Seminary. His books have won top honors from Christianity Today, Outreach Magazine, Jesus Creed, and Englewood Review. When he isn't hiking, baseballing, or chasing his seven children, he co-hosts the OnScript podcast. A Protestant by conviction, Bates holds a PhD in theology (New Testament) from the University of Notre Dame. His popular titles include Salvation by Allegiance Alone, Why the Gospel?, The Gospel Precisely, and The Birth of the Trinity. He lives with his family in Quincy, Illinois. Learn more about his books, lectures, or conference-speaking at MatthewWBates.com.

Matthew's Book:

Beyond the Salvation Wars

Matthew's Recommendations:

The Affections of Christ Jesus

Renovation of the Heart

The Great Divorce

The Deeply Formed Life

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John Eldredge joins us today. We're living in a moment where most people report either a lack of or no experience of Jesus in their daily lives. The war right now is for your attention. Every algorithm, every notification, every distraction is designed to keep you from the one thing your soul is actually craving: intimacy with Jesus. We've been grandchildren of the Enlightenment, disciples of the internet, consuming endless content about faith without actually experiencing the living, breathing presence of Christ. But what if - and this might sound wild - what if Jesus is actually waiting to meet you right now? Not in some distant, theological concept, but in the very moment you're listening to this. Your soul is wired for connection. You were created for intimacy with the Father, with Jesus, with the Holy Spirit. This isn't just for special saints or mystics - this is for you. Ordinary people can become ordinary mystics, experiencing God's presence in the most mundane moments of life. So buckle up. We're about to dive into a conversation that isn't just information - it's an invitation. An invitation to turn your heart, to create sacred space, and to encounter the living Jesus in a way that will absolutely transform everything. Are you ready?

John Eldredge is a New York Times bestselling author, counselor, and teacher who has inspired millions to go deeper in their relationship with Jesus. He is also president of Wild at Heart, a ministry devoted to helping people discover the heart of God, recover their own hearts in God's love, and learn to live in God's kingdom. John and his wife, Stasi, live in Colorado Springs, Colorado. To learn more, visit www.wildatheart.org.

John's Book:

Experience Jesus. Really.

John's Recommendations:

Experiencing the Depths of Jesus Christ

The Practice of the Presence of God

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This conversation with Alissa Wilkinson is a fascinating exploration of how the stories we tell ourselves - through Hollywood, through politics, through the media - shape the very fabric of our culture and our history. Wilkinson's work on the iconic writer Joan Didion provides a powerful lens to examine how the narratives we construct, often unconsciously, can profoundly influence the way we see the world and the decisions we make as individuals and as a society. What's so compelling about this discussion is the way it peels back the layers on these deeply ingrained stories - the myths of the American West, the heroic narratives of World War II, the celebrity-driven politics of the Reagan era. Wilkinson shows how these cultural touchstones don't just reflect our values, but actively shape them, often in ways that obscure uncomfortable truths or justify harmful actions. In an age where the very notion of objective reality is under assault, this conversation reminds us of the vital importance of interrogating the stories we tell ourselves. Because the stories we choose to believe - whether about our national identity, our political leaders, or our own personal histories - have real consequences. They determine how we see the world, how we make decisions, and ultimately, the kind of future we create for ourselves. So I encourage you to listen closely, to wrestle with the questions Wilkinson raises about the power of narrative, and to consider how the stories you've internalized might be shaping your own understanding of the world. It's a conversation that gets to the heart of what it means to be human in a complex, ever-shifting cultural landscape.

Alissa Wilkinson is a movie critic at the New York Times and the author of "We Tell Ourselves Stories: Joan Didion and the American Dream Machine," which will be published by Liveright on March 11, 2025.

Alissa's Book:

We Tell Ourselves Stories

Alissa's Recommendations:

Predators

Zodiac Killer Project

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My conversation with Reward Sibanda is a deep dive into the spiritual practice of fasting. Reward grew up immersed in fasting as a cultural and religious tradition in Zimbabwe. But it wasn't until later that he grasped the profound theological significance behind it. Fasting is about aligning our whole being - body, mind, and spirit - with the will and presence of God. It's not some outdated ritual, but a powerful spiritual discipline. When we fast, we quiet the noise of our physical appetites and mental chatter, allowing our spirit to ascend and commune with God. This realignment is what enables the kind of faith and prayer that Jesus says can move mountains. Fasting humbles our soul, elevates our spirit, and puts us in a posture to help with unbelief. Reward's insights challenge us to see fasting not as a chore, but as a gift God has given us. In an age of constant distraction and self-centeredness, fasting offers a way to reorient ourselves towards the holiness and mystery of God. It has the power to revive our souls, renew our minds, and cleanse our bodies. This is a conversation that just may change the way you approach your relationship with God. Reward lays out a compelling case for why fasting should be a regular part of the Christian life today. So join us as we learn why and how to fast.

Reward Sibanda is a Speaker, Author, Teaching Pastor at Saddleback Church, and Senior Director for National Church Partnerships, World Vision.

Reward's Book:

How to Fast

Reward's Recommendations:

Your Story Has a Villian

The Familiar Stranger

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Today, we dive into the power of reckoning with our personal stories - the formative experiences and wounds from our past that shape who we are today, often in ways we don't fully understand. My guest, Adam Young, has spent years helping people make sense of their stories, to find freedom and wholeness. As Adam shares, the truth is, our past isn't just the past - it's deeply woven into our present. The feelings, fears, and patterns we carry from childhood can profoundly impact our relationships, our mental health, even our sense of calling. But the good news is, our brains have an incredible capacity for change and integration. Through curiosity, kindness, and the support of others, we can begin to uncover the hidden narratives that have been subtly steering the course of our lives. And in doing so, we open the door to a deeper, truer version of ourselves - one that can finally step into the unique purpose we were made for. This is a conversation about the transformative power of reckoning with our stories, no matter how messy or painful they may be. It's about finding the courage to face our past, so we can step more fully into our future. So join us as we make sense of our stories.

Adam Young is a therapist who focuses on trauma and abuse, and the host of The Place We Find Ourselves podcast. Adam is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker (LCSW) with a Master degree in Social Work (Virginia Commonwealth University) and Divinity (Emory University).
Adam is the author of Make Sense of Your Story: Why Engaging Your Story with Kindness Changes Everything. He currently serves as a Fellow and Instructor at The Allender Center. Adam lives in Fort Collins, CO, with his wife and two children.

Adam's Book:

Make Sense of Your Story

Adam's Recommendations:

The Prophetic Imagination

Genesis: Interpretation

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When we think of the Apostle Paul, we often picture a stern, unyielding figure - the finger-wagging scold, laying down the law for the early Christian communities. But my guest today, Nijay Gupta, is here to shatter that perception and reveal the beating heart at the center of Paul's theology. In Nijay's new book, "The Affections of Christ Jesus," he makes a captivating case that what truly animates Paul's writings is an overwhelming, spilling-over affection - a profound, personal love that should reorient our entire understanding of the gospel message. As we dive into this conversation, Nijay makes the case that the dominant theological frameworks we've used to interpret Paul's work - the camps of justification by faith, the apocalyptic Paul, salvation history are missing something. He argues that what's been missing is a central focus on love, on the emotional, relational dimension that lies at the core of Paul's vision. And Nijay doesn't stop there. He also brings in the insights of Augustine, the great theologian of love, exploring how our deepest loves - not just our intellectual beliefs - are what truly shape the trajectory of our lives. So join me as we explore the affections that lie at the center of Paul's writings - the love that should be the starting point, not the afterthought, of our theology.

Nijay Gupta (DPhil, University of Durham) has written several academic books including Paul and the Language of Faith, and Tell Her Story: How Women Led, Taught, and Ministered in the Early Church. He has co-edited The State of New Testament Studies, and The State of Pauline Studies. Nijay co-chairs the Pauline Theology seminar of the Institute for Biblical Research and serves as a senior translator for the New Living Translation.

Nijay's Book:

The Affections of Christ Jesus

Nijay's Recommendation:

Becoming the Pastor's Wife

The Wild Robot

Shrinking

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