If palliative care was a drug, one question we would want to know before prescribing it is what dose we should give. Give too little - it may not work. Give too much, it may cause harm (even if the higher dose had no significant side effects, it would require patients to take a lot of unnecessary additional pills as well as increase the cost.)

So, what is the effective dose of palliative care? On today’s podcast, we talk about finding an evidence-based answer to this dosing question with three leaders in palliative care: Jennifer Temel, Chris Jones, and Pallavi Kumar. All three of our guests were co-authors of a randomized control trial on “Stepped Palliative Care” published in JAMA this year.

We talk about what stepped palliative care is, how it is different from usual care or intensive palliative care, why these palliative care dosing questions are important, and dive deep into the results of their trial. We also discuss some of the other important trials in palliative care, including Jennifer Temel’s landmark NEJM study on outpatient palliative care and another study that gave an intervention we dubbed “fast-food palliative care” in an older GeriPal blog post.

Well-being and resilience are so hot right now. We have an endless supply of CME courses on decreasing burnout through self-care strategies. Well-being committees are popping up at every level of an organization. And C-suites now have chief wellness officers sitting at the table. I must admit, though, sometimes it just feels off… inauthentic, as if it's not a genuine desire to improve our lives as health care providers, but rather a metric to check off or a desire to improve productivity and billing by making the plight of workers a little less miserable.

On today’s podcast, we talk with Jane Thomas, Naomi Saks, and Ishwaria Subbiah about the concepts of wellness, well-being, resilience, and burnout, as well as what can be done to truly improve the lives of healthcare providers and bring, I dare say it, joy into our work.

For more on resources for well-being, check out the following:

1. Cynda Rushton, PHD, MSN, RN — Transforming Moral Distress into Moral Resilience
   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1gE5G8WnTU

1. Tricia Hersey: Rest & Collective Care as Tools for Liberation
   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OuXnLrKyi0

1. Beyond resiliency: shifting the narrative of medical student wellness
   https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10500407/

1. Fostering resilience in healthcare professionals during and in the aftermath of the COVID-19 pandemic
   https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/bjpsych-advances/article/fostering-resilience-in-healthcare-professionals-during-and-in-the-aftermath-of-the-covid19-pandemic/0ADCA3737D12CAF308567A7F59EFC267

1. The Greater Good Science Center studies the psychology, sociology, and neuroscience of well-being and teaches skills that foster a thriving, resilient, and compassionate society.
   https://ggsc.berkeley.edu/?_ga=2.230263642.712840261.1724681290-1268886183.1680535323

In today’s podcast we set the stage with the story of Dax Cowart, who in 1973 was a 25 year old man horribly burned in a freak accident. Two thirds of his body was burned, most of his fingers were amputated, and he lost vision in both eyes. During his 14 month recovery Dax repeatedly demanded that he be allowed to die. The requests were ignored. After, he said he was both glad to be alive, and that the doctors should have respected his wish to be allowed to die.

But that was 1973, you might say. We don’t have such issues today, do we?

Louise Aronson’s recent perspective about her mother in the NEJM, titled, “Beyond Code Status” suggests no, we still struggle with this issue. And Bill Andereck is still haunted by the decision he made to have the police break down the door to rescue his patient who attempted suicide in the 1980s, as detailed in this essay in the Cambridge Quarterly of HealthCare Ethics. The issues that are raised by these situations are really hard, as they involve complex and sometimes competing ethical values, including:

• The duty to rescue, to save life, to be a “lifeguard”

• Judgements about quality of life, made on the part of patients about their future selves, and by clinicians (and surrogate decision makers) about patients

• Age realism vs agism

• The ethics of rationale suicide, subject of a prior GeriPal episode

• Changes in medical practice and training, a disconnect between longitudinal care and acute care, and frequent handoffs

• The limitations of advance directives, POLST, and code status orders in the electronic health record

• The complexities of patient preferences, which extend far beyond code status

• The tension between list vs goals based approaches to documentation in the EHR

And a great song request, “The Cape” by Guy Clark to start and end.

Enjoy!

-@AlexSmithMD

Serious illness communication is hard. We must often deliver complex medical information that carries heavy emotional weight in pressured settings to individuals with varying cultural backgrounds, values, and beliefs. That’s a hard enough task, given that most of us have never had any communication skills training. It feels nearly impossible if you add another degree of difficulty, whether it be a crying interpreter or a grandchild from another state who shows up at the end of a family meeting yelling how you are killing grandma.

On today’s podcast, we try to stump three VitalTalk expert faculty, Gordon Wood, Holly Yang, Elise Carey, with some of the most challenging communication scenarios that we (and some of our listeners) could think up.

During the podcast, we reference a newly released second-edition book that our guests published titled “Navigating Communication with Seriously Ill Patients: Balancing Honesty with Empathy and Hope.” I’d add this to your “must read” list of books, as it takes readers through the VitalTalk method that our guests use so effectively when addressing these challenging scenarios.

If you are interested in learning more about VitalTalk, check out their and some of these other podcasts we’ve done with three of the other authors of this book (and VitalTalk co-founders):

• Our podcast with Tony Back as well as Wendy Anderson on “Communication Skills in a Time of Crises”

• Our podcast with James Tulsky on “The Messiness of Medical Decision-Making in Advanced Illness.”

• Any one of our podcasts with Bob Arnold, including this one on the language of serious illness or this one on books, to become a better mentor.

Lastly, I reference Alex’s Take Out the Trash video, where he uses communication skills learned in his palliative care training at home with his wife. The results are… well… let’s just say less than perfect.

By: Eric Widera

We’ve talked about Brain Death before with Robert (Bob) Troug and guest-host Liz Dzeng, and in many ways today’s podcast is a follow up to that episode (apologies Bob for mispronouncing your last name on today’s podcast!).

Why does this issue keep coming up? Why is it unresolved? Today we put these questions to Winston Chiong, a neurologist and bioethicist, and Sean Aas, a philosopher and bioethicist. We talk about many reasons and ways forward on this podcast, including:

• The ways in which advancing technology continually forces us to re-evaluate what it means to be dead - from the ability of cells/organs to revive, to a future in which organs can be grown, to uploading our consciousness to an AI. (I briefly mention the Bobiverse series by Denise Taylor - a science fiction series about an uploaded consciousness that confronts the reader with a re-evaluation of what it means to be human, or deserving of moral standing).

• The moral questions at stake vs the biologic questions (and links between them)

• The pressures the organ donation placers on this issue, and questioning if this is the dominant consideration (as Winston notes, organ donation was not central to the Jahi McMath story)

• What we argue about when we argue about death - the title of a great recent paper from Sean - which argues that “we must define death in moralized terms, as the loss of a significant sort of moral standing,” - noting that those why are “dead” have something to gain - the ability to donate their organs to others.

• Winston’s paper on the “fuzziness” around all definitions of brain death, titled, Brain Death without Definitions.

As we joke about at the start - talking with philosophers and bioethicists, you almost always get a response along the lines of, “well that’s a good question, but let’s examine a deeper more fundamental question.” Today is no different. And the process of identifying the right questions to ask is absolutely the best place to start.

Eventually, of course, everything must cease.

-@AlexSmithMD

Anti-Asian hate incidents rose dramatically during COVID, likely fueled by prominent statements about the “Chinese virus.” VIewed through the wider lens of history, this was just the latest in a long experience of Anti-Asian hate, including the murder of Vincent Chin, the Chinese Exclusion Act, and the internment of Japanese Americans during WWII. For those who think that anti-Asian hate has receded as the COVID has “ended,” just two days prior to recording this episode a Filipino woman was pushed to her death on BART in San Francisco. These incidents are broadcast widely, particularly in Asian News outlets.

Today we talk about the impact of anti-Asian hate on the health and well being of older adults with Russell Jeung, sociologist, Professor of Asian Studies at San Francisco State, and co-founder of Stop AAPI-Hate, Lingsheng Li, geriatrician/palliative care doc and T32 fellow at UCSF, and Jessica Eng, medical director of On Lok, a PACE, and Associate Professor in the UCSF Division of Geriatrics.

We discuss:

• What is considered a hate incident, how is it tracked, what do we know about changes over time

• The wider impact of Anti-Asian hate on older Asians, who are afraid to go out, leading to anxiety, social isolation, loneliness, decreased exercise, missed appointments and medications. Lingsheng (and I) recently published studies on this in JAMA Internal Medicine, and JAGS.

• Ongoing reports from patients about anti-Asian hate experiences

• Should clinicians screen for Anti-Asian hate? Why? Why not?

• Proposing the clinicians ask a simple follow up question to the usual “do you feel safe at home?” question used to screen for domestic violence. Add to this, “do you feel safe outside the home?” This question, while providing an opportunity to talk about direct and indirect experiences, can be asked of all patients, and opens the door to conversations about anti-semitism, islamophobia, or anti-Black racism.

See also guides for how to confront and discuss anti-Asian hate in these articles in the NEJM and JGIM.

And to balance the somber subject, Lingsheng requested the BTS song Dynamite, which was the group’s first English language song, and was released at the height of the COVID pandemic. I had fun trying to make a danceable version with electronic drums for the audio-only podcast. Maybe we’ll get some BTS followers to subscribe to GeriPal?!?

-@AlexSmithMD

(We couldn’t resist when Miguel Paniagua proposed this podcast idea and title. And no, you’ll be relieved to hear Eric and I did not imitate the interview style of Zach Galifiniakis).

We’ve talked a good deal on this podcast about what happens before death, today we talk about what happens after. Our guest today is Thomas Lynch, a poet and undertaker who practiced for years in a small town in Michigan. I first met Thomas when he visited UC Berkeley in the late 90’s after publishing his book, “The Undertaking: Stories from the Dismal Trade.”

We cover a wide range on this topic, weaving in our own stories of loss with Thomas’s experiences, stories, and poems from years of caring for families after their loved one’s have died.

We cover:

• The cultural shift from grieving to celebration, the “disappearance” of the body and death from funerals

• The power of viewing the body and participating in preparing the body, including cremation

• The costs of funerals

• The story of why Thomas became an undertaker

• A strong response to Jessica Mitford’s scathing critique of the American Funeral Industry published in “The American Way of Death”

• Our own experiences with funerals and burial arrangements for our loved ones

• Shifting practices, with a majority of people being cremated after death, a dramatic increase

This podcast was like therapy for us. And I got to sing Tom Waits’ Time, one of my favorites.

What is a healthy diet and how much does it really matter that we try to eat one as we age? That’s the topic of this week's podcast with three amazing guests: Anna Pleet, Elizabeth Eckstrom, and Emily Johnston.

Emily Johnston is a registered dietitian, nutrition researcher, and Assistant professor at NYU. Anna Pleet is an internal medicine resident at Allegheny Health Network who has a collection of amazing YouTube videos on aging and the Mediterranean diet. Elizabeth Eckstrom is a geriatrician, professor of medicine at OHSU, and author of a new book, the Gift of Aging.

I love this podcast as while we talk about the usual topics in a medical podcast, like the role of screening, energy balance, and evidence-based for specific diets, we also talk about what a Mediterranean diet actually looks like on a plate and pepper our guests with questions about their favorite meals to convince Alex and me to eat more like a Sardinian.

Eric

PS. NEJM just published a great summary of diets summing up adherence to the Mediterranean diet and the following improved health outcomes: death from any cause, cardiovascular diseases, coronary heart disease, myocardial infarction, cancer, neurodegenerative diseases, and diabetes