This is a special re-release of an episode featuring guest host Jackson Kroopf speaking with the incomparable Kimberly Ann Johnson and Stephen Jenkinson. We’re bringing this conversation back to let you know about something special happening this weekend from Stephen Jenkinson and the Orphan Wisdom School: Sanity and Soul: Die Wise 10 Years.

Taking place on March 15th and 16th at 10am Pacific, this 6-part online event is a deep dive into the wisdom of death, grief, and the soul, 10 years after the publication of Stephen's transformative book Die Wise. You’ll get to experience the depth of Stephen’s work in a pretty unique way: through 4 recorded grief counsel sessions with dying people, hearing Stephen practice, in 2025, the kind of work described in Die Wise. Plus, he’ll be joined by two brilliant colleagues—a neuroscientist studying human consciousness and a filmmaker exploring the afterlife—to discuss the lasting impact of Die Wise on grief counseling, death doulas, and the way these ideas continue to shape our world.

If you want to learn more and register, visit orphanwisdom.com/events. But now, enjoy this conversation from March 2023, following Reckoning at Mt. Madonna. Please do consider gifting yourself or a loved one this upcoming offering, Sanity & Soul that promises to provide some ceremony in these troubled times in ways only Stephen and the Orphan Wisdom School can.

Link: https://orphanwisdom.com/event/die-wise-sanity-and-soul-ten-years-on/

What You’ll Here in this Episode:

Reflections on witness from retired birth and death workers

The value of disillusionment

The power of loneliness

The proliferation of self pathologizing

The complex politics of feelings

The religion of western psychology

Adolescents grabbing for pop psychology labels

The respect in not offering solutions

The eagerness to escape from pain while grieving

Is love dead?

Blessing not as approval but the emergence of something new

Marriage as both celebration and loss

Matrimony between cultures

An only child and single parent inviting in a new husband

Building an escape route as you enter a union

The no-go zone of contemporary western marriage

15 minute weddings, 15 minute funerals, 15 minute births

The cultural casualties of uniformity

Being healthy enough to tend to home and neighbor

Links

ig @reckoning live

Sanity & Soul Sign-Up https://orphanwisdom.com/event/die-wise-sanity-and-soul-ten-years-on/

In this episode, return guest Joelle Hann and Kimberly discuss the complexities of publishing, including traditional, self, and hybrid publishing. Joelle walks us through the importance of a book proposal, which serves as a roadmap for authors and a calling card for agents and publishers. Kimberly weighs in on her own experience in navigating the book publishing world and the incredible value she has found in working with Joelle. Joelle highlights the need for authors to understand their audience and market, and the potential pitfalls of self-publishing without an existing audience. Joelle's Book Proposal Academy is enrolling now and starts March 14th. This is the only cohort for 2025. Apply now! To be eligible to save up to $500 and get other early-bird bonuses, mention Sex, Birth, Trauma podcast in your application.

Bio

Joelle Hann is an award-winning writer with a history of developing high-level book projects for major American publishers. Subject areas have included wellness and transformation, women’s health, leadership and spirituality, as well as conscious business, personal finance and memoir. She has worked with top CEOs and humanitarian activists,visionary coaches and thought-leaders, spiritual teachers, scholars, moms, midwives, entrepreneurs, and many others. She founded Brooklyn Book Doctor to help people write transformational books to help change the world.

Links

IG @brooklynbookdoctor

Learn More & Apply to Book Proposal Academy 2025: https://brooklynbookdoctor.com/bpa

Learn More about Sanity & Soul: Die Wise Ten Years On with Stephen Jenkinson here: https://orphanwisdom.com/event/die-wise-sanity-and-soul-ten-years-on/

In this episode, Kimberly dives deep into guest author Catherine Simone Gray's book Proud Flesh: A Memoir of Motherhood, Intimate Violence, and Reclaiming Pleasure. With tenderness, Kimberly and Catherine share their mutual appreciation for each other’s writing and the deep impact Kimberly’s work has had on the journey that led to Catherine’s book. Catherine guides us through her journey of healing from a vaginal tear postpartum, which led to the discovery of proud flesh, a term for hypergranulation tissue. She describes the emotional and physical challenges she faced across two births (one hospital/C-Section, one home/natural), including silver nitrate treatments and the support of her husband; recounting the story of how the couple’s relationships to one another’s bodies changed when she invited him to draw her vulva daily. Catherine and Kimberly both emphasize the importance of language and writing in redefining sexuality and eroticism, and how this process can support women in reconnecting with their body. If you enjoyed this conversation be sure to sign up for their online gathering Writing as a Pathway to Pleasure on Sunday, February 23rd at https://kimberlyannjohnson.com/writing-pathway-to-pleasure/

Bio

Catherine Simone Gray is a writer and teacher. Her writings on motherhood and healing first appeared on her blog Unsilenced Woman, where her piece about teaching her son consent reached 2.5 million around the world. Featured by Roxane Gay in The Audacity’s Emerging Writer Series, her work has also appeared in The Bitter Southerner and the Michigan Quarterly Review: Mixtape. Her blog writings have been shared by respected organizations for new mothers, such as La Leche League USA, International Cesarean Awareness Network, and ImprovingBirth. Gray is the recipient of a literary arts fellowship with the Mississippi Arts Commission and has delivered three addresses at the Mississippi Women's March and Womanist rallies.

With over a decade of experience as a writing teacher to people aged eight to eighty, she holds a master of arts in curriculum and instruction. She leads writing circles for women, mothers, and caregivers, exploring how writing can be an ally in our living and loving. Her debut memoir Proud Flesh: A Memoir of Motherhood, Intimate Violence, and Reclaiming Pleasure was published in 2025 by North Atlantic Books. She lives in Jackson, Mississippi, with her husband and their two sons.

What You’ll Hear

• Kimberly’s deep appreciation for the writing craft found in Catherine’s book and is moved by the way their work has intersected

• Catherine has been a Jaguar since 2017 and shares the way many baths listening, reading and sitting with Kimberly’s work influenced Proud Flesh

• Catherine recalls key moments with her doctor in making a healing plan for a natural birth injury

• Catherine describes how the scientific term Proud Flesh took on poetic meaning in her life

• Catherine discusses the difference in healing from the numbing disconnect of C-Section to the embodied pain of a natural birth.

• Catherine describes a profound confrontation with how her and her husband relate to each other’s bodies, which led to a durational art project in which he drew her vulva over time.

• Catherine and Kimberly reflect on erotic writing that doesn’t reify centering the male gaze

• Kimberly and Catherine talk about their own evolving relationships to their bodies and the craft of writing

Links

IG - @unsilencedwoman

Website - www.unsilencedwoman.com

Book - https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/771427/proud-flesh-by-catherine-simone-gray/

Online Gathering - https://kimberlyannjohnson