
The Federalist Papers (AmazonClassics Edition)
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Narrado por:
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James Anderson Foster
Acerca de esta escucha
Hailed by Thomas Jefferson as "the best commentary on the principles of government which was ever written," The Federalist Papers is a collection of 85 essays published by Founding Fathers Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, and John Jay from 1787 to 1788, as a means to persuade the public to ratify the Constitution of the United States.
With nearly two-thirds of the essays written by Hamilton, this enduring classic is perfect for modern audiences passionate about his work or seeking a deeper understanding of one of the most important documents in US history.
AmazonClassics brings you timeless works from iconic authors. Ideal for anyone who wants to read a great work for the first time or revisit an old favorite, these new editions open the door to the stories and ideas that have shaped our world.
Revised edition: Previously published as The Federalist Papers, this edition of The Federalist Papers (AmazonClassics Edition) includes editorial revisions.
Public Domain (P)2018 Brilliance Publishing, Inc., all rights reserved.Los oyentes también disfrutaron...
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Historia
In James Madison and the Making of America, historian Kevin Gutzman looks beyond the way James Madison is traditionally seen - as "The Father of the Constitution” - to find a more complex and sometimes contradictory portrait of this influential Founding Father and the ways in which he influenced the spirit of today's United States.
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Not a traditional biography
- De David en 12-14-12
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Reflections on the Revolution in France
- De: Edmund Burke
- Narrado por: Bernard Mayes
- Duración: 11 h y 28 m
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This famous treatise began as a letter to a young French friend who asked Edmund Burke’s opinion on whether France’s new ruling class would succeed in creating a better order. Doubtless the friend expected a favorable reply, but Burke was suspicious of certain tendencies of the Revolution from the start and perceived that the revolutionaries were actually subverting the true "social order". Blending history with principle and graceful imagery with profound practical maxims, this book is one of the most influential political treatises in the history of the world.
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A good historical perspective
- De CMC en 08-30-14
De: Edmund Burke
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Politics
- De: Aristotle
- Narrado por: Matthew Josdal
- Duración: 8 h y 19 m
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Aristotle's Politics is a work of political philosophy. The end of Aristotle’s Nicomachean Ethics declared that the inquiry into ethics necessarily follows into politics, and the two works are frequently considered to be parts of a larger treatise, or perhaps connected lectures, dealing with the philosophy of human affairs. Aristotle is generally regarded as one of the most influential ancient thinkers in a number of philosophical fields, including political theory.
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Aristotle Lives Again!
- De Jeff en 02-25-15
De: Aristotle
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The Ideological Origins of the American Revolution
- De: Bernard Bailyn
- Narrado por: Tom Perkins
- Duración: 14 h y 6 m
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To the original text of what has become a classic of American historical literature, Bernard Bailyn adds a substantial essay, "Fulfillment", as a postscript. Here he discusses the intense nationwide debate on the ratification of the Constitution, stressing the continuities between that struggle over the foundations of the national government and the original principles of the Revolution.
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Bernard Bailyn is a genius!
- De John M. Crean en 04-21-19
De: Bernard Bailyn
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The Framers' Coup
- The Making of the United States Constitution
- De: Michael J. Klarman
- Narrado por: Mike Chamberlain
- Duración: 31 h y 45 m
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Americans revere their Constitution. However, most of us are unaware how tumultuous and improbable the drafting and ratification processes were. As Benjamin Franklin keenly observed, any assembly of men bring with them "all their prejudices, their passions, their errors of opinion, their local interests and their selfish views." One need not deny that the Framers had good intentions in order to believe that they also had interests.
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Context Matters
- De Keith en 03-18-18
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Rights of Man
- De: Thomas Paine
- Narrado por: Arthur Morey
- Duración: 9 h y 26 m
- Versión completa
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Rights of Man presents an impassioned defense of the Enlightenment principles of freedom and equality that Thomas Paine believed would soon sweep the world. He boldly claimed, "From a small spark, kindled in America, a flame has arisen, not to be extinguished. Without consuming...it winds its progress from nation to nation."
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By his voice alone he helped transform the West
- De Darwin8u en 12-23-12
De: Thomas Paine
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George Washington's Farewell Address
- De: George Washington
- Narrado por: John Greenman
- Duración: 50 m
- Versión completa
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"George Washington's Farewell Address" is a letter written by George Washington to the people of the United States of America. It was Washington's valedictory after 20 years of service to the new nation. It is a classic statement of republicanism, warning Americans of the political dangers they can and must avoid if they are to remain true to their values.
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Confused
- De Leslie W. Stewart III en 12-09-22
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The Gettysburg Address
- De: Abraham Lincoln
- Narrado por: Robertson Dean
- Duración: 3 m
- Versión completa
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The Gettysburg Address, delivered by Lincoln on November 19, 1863, in the aftermath of a narrow, bloody Union victory at the Battle of Gettysburg, is considered one of the greatest speeches in American history.
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American history devotional
- De RJ en 11-29-18
De: Abraham Lincoln
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Constitution
- De: James Madison
- Narrado por: Deaver Brown
- Duración: 37 m
- Versión completa
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In less than 60 minutes of listening to this audiobook, you will have heard the original United States Constitution. To improve your understanding of the Constitution, we have included original readings and commentary related to this subject, such as the drafting and ratification of the Constitution, the historical influences on the Constitution, and the Anti-Federalists.
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🎆Adventurous Conversations Following this Topic☕️
- De F. F. F. en 07-12-15
De: James Madison
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On Liberty
- De: John Stuart Mill
- Narrado por: Alastair Cameron
- Duración: 5 h y 2 m
- Versión completa
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On Liberty is a book by John Stuart Mill, one of the most celebrated philosophers on the subject of leadership and governing ideals. The book focuses on Mill's philosophy on utilitarianism which is one of his defining principles. The principles of the book are focused on developing a relationship between the ruling authority and liberty.
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Must read
- De Trevor M. en 08-04-21
De: John Stuart Mill
Las personas que vieron esto también vieron...
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The Federalist Papers
- De: Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, John Jay
- Narrado por: Arthur Morey
- Duración: 19 h y 51 m
- Versión completa
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Historia
Originally published anonymously, The Federalist Papers first appeared in 1787 as a series of letters to New York newspapers exhorting voters to ratify the proposed Constitution of the United States. Still hotly debated and open to often controversial interpretations, the arguments first presented here by three of America's greatest patriots and political theorists were created during a critical moment in our nation's history.
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Changes key words and concepts from the original
- De Some guy en 08-14-20
De: Alexander Hamilton, y otros
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The Anti-Federalist Papers
- De: Patrick Henry
- Narrado por: John Clicman
- Duración: 7 h y 56 m
- Versión completa
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The Anti-Federalist Papers is the collective name given to works written by the Founding Fathers who were opposed to or concerned with the merits of the United States Constitution of 1787. Starting on 25 September 1787 (8 days after the final draft of the US Constitution) and running through the early 1790s, these anti-Federalists published a series of essays arguing against a stronger and more energetic union as embodied in the new Constitution.
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The wrong side won
- De Amazon Customer en 05-25-21
De: Patrick Henry
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Books That Matter: The Federalist Papers
- De: Joseph Hoffmann, The Great Courses
- Narrado por: Professor Joseph Hoffmann
- Duración: 6 h y 39 m
- Grabación Original
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Historia
It would be difficult to overstate the influence of The Federalist Papers. Despite their lack of official or legal status, these 85 brilliant essays have served as the single most important guide to the interpretation and application of the US Constitution for more than 230 years. Authored by Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, and John Jay, The Federalist Papers offer a detailed blueprint for building a successful democratic republic. Books That Matter: The Federalist Papers gives you the chance to delve into this magisterial blueprint for yourself.
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Not about the Federalist Papers. liberal opinions
- De Spitfire en 12-07-20
De: Joseph Hoffmann, y otros
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The Federalist Papers
- De: Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, John Jay
- Narrado por: Alastair Cameron
- Duración: 19 h y 10 m
- Versión completa
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General
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Historia
Written by Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, and John Jay, The Federalist Papers have long been considered to be some of the most important works in political science ever written. The Federalist Papers establishes a method of constitutional government that was the building block for the type of government the United States has operated under for over 200 years.
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A Great Constitutional Refreshment
- De Charlie en 06-19-17
De: Alexander Hamilton, y otros
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The Anti-Federalist Papers and the Constitutional Convention Debates
- De: Ralph Ketcham - editor, Ralph Ketcham - introduction
- Narrado por: Sean Runnette
- Duración: 16 h y 31 m
- Versión completa
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General
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Historia
The complete texts of the documents that tell the story of the clashes and compromises that gave birth to the Unites States of America. Should the members of the government be elected by direct vote of the people? Should the government be headed by a single executive, and how powerful should that executive be? Should immigrants be allowed into the United States? How should judges be appointed? What human rights should be safe from government infringement? In 1787, these important questions and others were raised as the states debated the merits of the proposed Constitution.
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don't buy this
- De Kindle Customer en 07-31-20
De: Ralph Ketcham - editor, y otros
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Common Sense
- De: Thomas Paine
- Narrado por: Walter Dixon
- Duración: 2 h y 17 m
- Versión completa
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Thomas Paine published Common Sense in 1776, a time when America was a hotbed of revolution. The pamphlet, which called for America's political freedom, sold more than 150,000 copies in three months. Paine not only spurred his fellow Americans to action but soon came to symbolize the spirit of the Revolution itself. His persuasive pieces, written so elegantly, spoke to the hearts and minds of all those fighting for freedom from England.
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A must for anyone interested in history
- De Johan en 05-18-15
De: Thomas Paine
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The Federalist Papers
- De: Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, John Jay
- Narrado por: Arthur Morey
- Duración: 19 h y 51 m
- Versión completa
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General
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Narración:
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Historia
Originally published anonymously, The Federalist Papers first appeared in 1787 as a series of letters to New York newspapers exhorting voters to ratify the proposed Constitution of the United States. Still hotly debated and open to often controversial interpretations, the arguments first presented here by three of America's greatest patriots and political theorists were created during a critical moment in our nation's history.
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Changes key words and concepts from the original
- De Some guy en 08-14-20
De: Alexander Hamilton, y otros
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The Anti-Federalist Papers
- De: Patrick Henry
- Narrado por: John Clicman
- Duración: 7 h y 56 m
- Versión completa
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General
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Narración:
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Historia
The Anti-Federalist Papers is the collective name given to works written by the Founding Fathers who were opposed to or concerned with the merits of the United States Constitution of 1787. Starting on 25 September 1787 (8 days after the final draft of the US Constitution) and running through the early 1790s, these anti-Federalists published a series of essays arguing against a stronger and more energetic union as embodied in the new Constitution.
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The wrong side won
- De Amazon Customer en 05-25-21
De: Patrick Henry
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Books That Matter: The Federalist Papers
- De: Joseph Hoffmann, The Great Courses
- Narrado por: Professor Joseph Hoffmann
- Duración: 6 h y 39 m
- Grabación Original
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General
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Narración:
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Historia
It would be difficult to overstate the influence of The Federalist Papers. Despite their lack of official or legal status, these 85 brilliant essays have served as the single most important guide to the interpretation and application of the US Constitution for more than 230 years. Authored by Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, and John Jay, The Federalist Papers offer a detailed blueprint for building a successful democratic republic. Books That Matter: The Federalist Papers gives you the chance to delve into this magisterial blueprint for yourself.
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Not about the Federalist Papers. liberal opinions
- De Spitfire en 12-07-20
De: Joseph Hoffmann, y otros
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The Federalist Papers
- De: Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, John Jay
- Narrado por: Alastair Cameron
- Duración: 19 h y 10 m
- Versión completa
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General
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Narración:
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Historia
Written by Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, and John Jay, The Federalist Papers have long been considered to be some of the most important works in political science ever written. The Federalist Papers establishes a method of constitutional government that was the building block for the type of government the United States has operated under for over 200 years.
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A Great Constitutional Refreshment
- De Charlie en 06-19-17
De: Alexander Hamilton, y otros
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The Anti-Federalist Papers and the Constitutional Convention Debates
- De: Ralph Ketcham - editor, Ralph Ketcham - introduction
- Narrado por: Sean Runnette
- Duración: 16 h y 31 m
- Versión completa
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General
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Narración:
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Historia
The complete texts of the documents that tell the story of the clashes and compromises that gave birth to the Unites States of America. Should the members of the government be elected by direct vote of the people? Should the government be headed by a single executive, and how powerful should that executive be? Should immigrants be allowed into the United States? How should judges be appointed? What human rights should be safe from government infringement? In 1787, these important questions and others were raised as the states debated the merits of the proposed Constitution.
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don't buy this
- De Kindle Customer en 07-31-20
De: Ralph Ketcham - editor, y otros
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Common Sense
- De: Thomas Paine
- Narrado por: Walter Dixon
- Duración: 2 h y 17 m
- Versión completa
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General
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Narración:
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Historia
Thomas Paine published Common Sense in 1776, a time when America was a hotbed of revolution. The pamphlet, which called for America's political freedom, sold more than 150,000 copies in three months. Paine not only spurred his fellow Americans to action but soon came to symbolize the spirit of the Revolution itself. His persuasive pieces, written so elegantly, spoke to the hearts and minds of all those fighting for freedom from England.
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A must for anyone interested in history
- De Johan en 05-18-15
De: Thomas Paine
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The Federalist Papers
- Selected Essays
- De: Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, John Jay
- Narrado por: Jim Killavey
- Duración: 5 h y 50 m
- Versión completa
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Historia
The Federalist Papers are a series of 85 articles, written between 1897 and 1888, advocating for the ratification of the United States Constitution. They serve as a primary source for interpretation of the Constitution, as they outline the philosophy and motivation of the proposed system of government.
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Wooden Reader
- De ListenLoud en 07-30-08
De: Alexander Hamilton, y otros
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The Federalist Papers
- De: Alexander Hamilton, John Jay, James Madison
- Narrado por: Monroe Clark McBride
- Duración: 19 h y 8 m
- Versión completa
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The Federalist Papers were first published in 1787 in the New York press under the signature of "Publius", a psuedonym used by the three authors: John Jay, James Madison, and Alexander Hamilton. The essays appeared in book form in 1788 and are generally considered to be one of the most important contributions to political thought made in America. The papers were meant to be influential in the campaign for the adoption of the Constitution by New York state. The authors discussed many general problems of politics in addition to the issues of the Constitution.
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Wow Fantastic worth the 20 hours
- De M. Rogers en 07-02-23
De: Alexander Hamilton, y otros
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Thomas Paine Classic Collection
- Common Sense, The Age of Reason, and The Rights of Man
- De: Thomas Paine
- Narrado por: Russell Newton
- Duración: 17 h y 50 m
- Versión completa
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This Thomas Paine Classic Collection contains three of Thomas Paine's most notable books: Common Sense, The Age of Reason, and The Rights of Man. Born during the Age of Enlightenment and one of America’s Founding Fathers, Thomas Paine wrote incredible works that continue to resonate with people in the modern world. Inside this collection, you’ll find some of Thomas Paine’s most famous and influential works, from his arguments against the Church to the nature of government and revolution.
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As it was then, so it is today.
- De Jason Lehne en 10-28-20
De: Thomas Paine
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Democracy in America (Excerpts)
- De: Alexis de Tocqueville
- Narrado por: George Guidall
- Duración: 4 h y 46 m
- Highlights
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Alexis de Tocqueville's renowned analysis of American democracy still has relevance today. In 1831 de Tocqueville was sent to America by the French government to study the U.S. penal system, but his real aim was to observe a democratic republic firsthand to see if such an entity could function with dignity and humanity. His travels, which took him to the cities of the Northeast, to the frontier and the Great Lakes, down the Mississippi and through the South, showed him a great deal about the United States. In 1834, he wrote Democracy in America, in which he examines the advantages and pitfalls of democracy, the conditions and conflicts among the races, and the movements that grip the country.
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Democracy in America
- De Michael en 02-18-10
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American Scripture
- Making the Declaration of Independence
- De: Pauline Maier
- Narrado por: Jonathan Yen
- Duración: 11 h y 37 m
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In Maier's hands, the Declaration of Independence is brought close to us. She lets us hear the voice of the people as revealed in the other "declarations" of 1776: the local resolutions - most of which have gone unnoticed over the past two centuries - that explained, advocated, and justified Independence and undergirded Congress' work. Detective-like, she discloses the origins of key ideas and phrases in the Declaration and unravels the complex story of its drafting and of the group-editing job which angered Thomas Jefferson.
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Outstanding Book. Horrible Narration.
- De Brad Weisberger en 05-24-21
De: Pauline Maier
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The Summer of 1787
- De: David O Stewart
- Narrado por: George Wilson
- Duración: 10 h y 47 m
- Versión completa
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David O. Stewart presents this well-researched account of the U.S. Constitution's creation not as a dry analysis of events, but as a high-powered narrative filled with dramatic intensity and larger-than-life historical figures.
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Very well done!
- De Alan en 04-20-17
De: David O Stewart
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The Theory of Moral Sentiments
- De: Adam Smith
- Narrado por: Michael Lunts
- Duración: 16 h y 28 m
- Versión completa
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The Theory of Moral Sentiments (1759) was the first major text by Adam Smith who, seven years later, was to publish what was to become one of the major economic classics, The Wealth of Nations (1776). However, Smith regarded The Theory of Moral Sentiments as his most important work because in it he identified the profound human instinct to act not necessarily in self-interest but through, as he phrased it, a ‘mutual sympathy of sentiments’.
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What Makes Humans Humane
- De Zeno en 10-06-18
De: Adam Smith
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America's Revolutionary Mind
- A Moral History of the American Revolution and the Declaration That Defined It
- De: C. Bradley Thompson
- Narrado por: Tom Parks
- Duración: 18 h y 17 m
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The purpose of this book is twofold: first, to elucidate the logic, principles, and significance of the Declaration of Independence as the embodiment of the American mind; and, second, to shed light on what John Adams once called the "real American Revolution"; that is, the moral revolution that occurred in the minds of the people in the 15 years before 1776.
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Excellent study of Revolutionary Thinking
- De Amazon Customer en 03-24-21
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The Spirit of the Laws
- De: Charles de Secondat Baron de Montesquieu
- Narrado por: Martyn Swain
- Duración: 23 h y 36 m
- Versión completa
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From the moment of its publication in 1748, The Spirit of the Laws proved to be a controversial work provoking widespread interest. Within three years it had been translated into various European languages - and was swiftly added to the List of Prohibited Books by the Roman Catholic Church. It is a remarkable book, a potpourri of observations and comments ranging far and wide over the social activities of mankind and it exerted a great influence on political leaders in the following decades.
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Truly Excellent Audiobook!
- De No to Statism en 09-09-19
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The Republic (AmazonClassics Edition)
- De: Plato, Benjamin Jowett - translator
- Narrado por: Malcolm Hillgartner
- Duración: 22 h y 38 m
- Versión completa
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In search of an ideal civilization, Socrates leads Glaucon, Polemarchus, Thrasymachus, and others in debates about various subjects, including justice, truth, class, and art. For without righteousness, tyranny and injustice give rise to oligarchy. The influential dialogues of The Republic helped shape all of Western literature and philosophical thought. It is as much a doctrine of ethics and politics now as it was for the ancient Greeks, and its dilemma remains: how to create a perfect society populated by very imperfect human beings.
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Horrendous.
- De Shelby Majors en 12-24-18
De: Plato, y otros
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The Memoir of Thomas Jefferson (AmazonClassics Edition)
- De: Thomas Jefferson
- Narrado por: Christopher Lane
- Duración: 7 h y 2 m
- Versión completa
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In his memoir, begun in 1821 and published posthumously, Thomas Jefferson recalls the early years of his formidable political rise, including his election to the Continental Congress in Philadelphia. He reflects on the French Revolution and his relationships with such notable contemporaries as Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, and other Founding Fathers.
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Read the words of Jefferson
- De lps562 en 07-07-21
De: Thomas Jefferson
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The Bill of Rights Primer
- A Citizen's Guidebook to the American Bill of Rights
- De: Akhil Reed Amar, Les Adams
- Narrado por: Tim Lundeen
- Duración: 8 h y 5 m
- Versión completa
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Many Americans reference the Bill of Rights, a document that represents many of the freedoms that define the United States. Who doesn’t know about the First Amendment’s freedom of religion or Second Amendment’s right to bear arms? In this succinct volume, Akhil Reed Amar and Les Adams offer a wealth of knowledge about the Bill of Rights that goes beyond a basic understanding.The Bill of Rights Primer is an authoritative guide to all American freedoms. Uncluttered and well-organized, this audiobook is perfect for those who want to study up on the Bill of Rights without needing a law degree to do so.
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At this length, basic; but at that, great
- De Philo en 06-10-15
De: Akhil Reed Amar, y otros
Lo que los oyentes dicen sobre The Federalist Papers (AmazonClassics Edition)
Con calificación alta para:
Reseñas - Selecciona las pestañas a continuación para cambiar el origen de las reseñas.
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- Don Roper
- 11-14-18
Constitution still applies in the 21st Century
After going through The Federalist Papers for the first time in my life, it was found that this book of papers written over 200 years ago still applies to our society today in the 21st century. Must say it is easier to listen to than to sit down and read but then the reading was meant more for research purposes than reading cover to cover as a newspapers. One can find how the Constitution actually does apply in the case of indicting a sitting POTUS. In order to indict a sitting POTUS, the sitting POTUS must be impeached first including the Senate finding for the impeachment with a 2/3 vote. If that does not apply to the discussion in 2018 for something written 230 years ago, I don't know what does. #application #Constittution #impeachment #Tagsviving #Sweepstakes
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Historia
- Anonymous User
- 04-24-19
wonderful ratings
wonderful ratings for anyone who wants to understand the founding of America it takes you back to the time when these Great Men debated and eventually ratified
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Historia
- E.M.
- 08-01-18
A Piece of the Foundation of the United States
This is a worthwhile time investment to understand the origins of the American democracy. The foundations of the constitution are laid bear with some sobering explanations for the ideals from which the country evolved and has devolved. Pay attention to the limitations of communication in shaping representation as well as the wide berth into the 2nd amendment (2 particular "papers" are dedicated to the subject).
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- Sean Nelson
- 11-09-18
This is not a story.
I liked the performance. It is not a story though, so I give it one star in that category.
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- Amazon Customer
- 02-16-20
In these times...
Everyone should read or revisit at least Federalist One. If you do I think historical context will lead you on.
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- AttackGirl
- 10-11-19
Securing our happiness
Perhaps mandatory reading for all then. Question and response for those who desire to run for any office
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- Andrew
- 07-15-21
Foundational Essays to Help Ratify the Constitution
I’ve had an old copy of The Federalist for a couple decades, but never thought to read it until recently. In looking up it’s history, too, it’s amazing to see that these were newspaper articles in response to other essays written against the Constitution to be ratified. (I’ve not yet read those articles.)
While John Jay only writes a handful of these 85 essays, he seems - to me, at least - the most level-headed Publius, while Alexander Hamilton and James Madison are certainly more passionate. Regardless, the three fellows make great arguments in favor of our Constitution and the legislative, executive, and judicial branches of the United States government.
While the men predicted great growth of the country and were right on many accounts and incorrect on a few, it seems to me they were the most incorrect on just one: while they knew that the branches could make checks on each other, removing corruption, they didn’t think of the advancement of culture and that the branches could be simultaneously corrupted. In a small sense, this is where we sit today, unfortunately, as the citizens no longer affect their representatives, but are effected by the representatives’ actions. Publius did not address this, though “he” made a wonderful stand for our Constitution and showed love for the nation as a whole.
These were long sentences, well read by James Anderson Foster. There are a couple essays, though, where Hamilton and Madison are co-authors, and, though Foster changed his voice and tempo, it was not established for whom he spoke. Again, due to sentence length and vocabulary, there were times when I didn’t know whether a question or statement was being read. There was a spot where a question came (“does it…?), then a statement (“does it….”), then a question (“does it…?”). Lastly, due to the length of sentences, he would pause, not after a comma, but after the word “and” which came after a comma, and this got a little annoying. But, these were tremendously long sentences - some of them taking up entire paragraphs - and he eloquently narrated a wonderful book that must be read.
In reading, or listening to, this book, one’s knowledge of all three branches of government is not merely squared or cubed, but raised to a tremendous power!
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Historia
- Augustine Akalonu
- 09-28-23
First rate reading of the exceptional works of brilliant minds.
First rate reading of the exceptional works of brilliant minds. One can only wonder what these men would have thought of some of our present day political leaders.
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- Lisbeth
- 07-20-24
A must-listen!
I’m still in awe of all the wisdom captured in these writings. The only reason this audiobook lost a star was because of the reader - he seemed so angry. I’ll avoid other titles read by him.
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- Charles Horikami
- 08-04-19
Great Voice for Great Words
This version of The Federalist Papers carries with it an emotion I imagine would be used by the founding fathers and is adequately portrayed by the voice actor.
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esto le resultó útil a 17 personas