Troped Out

By: Emma C. Wells & E. J. Wenstrom
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  • Summary

  • An exploration of genre storytelling in all its forms
    2021 Typo Productions
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Art Literary History & Criticism
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Episodes
  • May Cobb Supports Women's Wrongs

    May Cobb Supports Women's Wrongs
    Apr 24 2023
    Thriller writer May Cobb joins us for a discussion about the complicated women in her novels who break their seemingly perfect lives, how readers weigh the misdeeds of a flawed female character against those of a murderer, and why her stories are set in East Texas.*Welcome to the latest episode of TROPED OUT PODCAST—a podcast where we interview your favorite (and future favorite) author’s about all things tropes! Today we are chatting with domestic suspense author May Cobb!May Cobb grew up in the piney woods of East Texas where MY SUMMER DARLINGS, THE HUNTING WIVES and BIG WOODS are set. After college, she moved to San Francisco where she studied Victorian Literature for my Master's, and gravitated towards that era's detective novels, known as "sensation novels", such as Wilke Collins' THE WOMAN IN WHITE. She then lived in Los Angeles for a few years where she worked for filmmaker/writer Ron Shelton and his wife, the actress Lolita Davidovich.Her writing has appeared in The Washington Post, The Rumpus, Austin Monthly, and Texas Highways Magazine.Check out May’s full bio on her website, www.MayCobb.comThe podcast is kicked off by asking what May is reading and loving. May is reading Eliza Jane Brazier’s GIRLS AND THEIR HORSES, which May describes as DALLAS meets BIG LITTLE LIES (which sounds amazing).EJ is plowing through Sylvia Moreno Garcia’s backlist (bc she is a huge MEXICAN GOTHIC fan). Up now is VELVET WAS THE NIGHT.Emma says she read MY SUMMER DARLINGS this past summer on the beach and it was the perfect landscape to read about these women in this small Texas town doing horrible things to each other.Emma is currently listening to WHAT LIES IN THE WOODS by Kate Alice Marshall. She is also on the wild ride of Alice Feeney’s ROCK PAPER SCISSORS.Emma says that May Cobb writes toxic friendships so well. They are women that have everything outwardly—but they are determined to blow their lives up.Emma asks what is that is so fun to read about toxic female friendships.May says she thinks its just so fun because women’s relationships are so complex with layers that you can really dig in to.EJ compares messy relationships to the show YELLOWJACKETS. Emma and May are also huge fans. We discuss the cliffhanger of season one and what the writers were thinking (do they know where things are going or at this point, are they winging it?).Emma asks May if she has a favorite mean girl from any movie or book or show?May likes the character in the movie Heathers. None of us can think of the actress’s name. oh well! As May says, to be blonde and in Hollywood!EJ asks May about her favorite hot mess character.May loves a storyline where the woman gets to play the role that is traditionally male. Where they do messy things for no reason other than they want to.Emma asks May if she’s ran into anyone that has given her the “why are your characters so unlikeable” BS.May has stories! She says people are always way more scandalized by the fact that her characters sleep around, than by the murders.EJ says that MY SUMMER DARLINGS is fascinating because the male character knows exactly how to play the women. It is like he moves into town and knows the exact moves to make these women do as he wants. But he never coerces them. It is fascinating that the female characters on the hook, but the male character is not. May agrees. May says that each of her characters are at a crossroads when this man comes into their lives and begins tearing things apart with manipulation. She asks, who among us, if we were in any of these women’s positions, wouldn’t at least have the thought?EJ says that the lure of the male character is so charismatic he made her think of a vampire character.Boredom is the downfall of wealthy people in small towns. When you can’t go to the opera—you create your own drama.Emma says that May’s stories definitely have a strong sense of place—they are Texas to the bone. Was this intentional or did her roots seep into the story as she was creating it?May says that she believes it was intentional. She moved back home to East Texas for a while, and that is where she wrote her first book. It felt as if she was channeling something—the place spoke to her.She loves the vibey, dark feel of the East Texas woods. It’s time for another round of Troped Out! They explain the rules and get down to it! Predatory Mastermind or Killer Next Door?Who the F*ck Did I Marry or Good For Her?Back From The Dead or Final Girl?Shout out to BettysBookList on TikTok.Secret Baby or Secret Twin?And that is a rap for this episode of TROPED OUT PODCAST!You can find today’s guest—May Cobb—online:www.MayCobb.comTwitter: @maykcobbInstagram: @may_cobbFacebook: @maykcobbMay’s books are available everywhere books are sold, including our Troped Out Bookshop, which you can visit to find books from all of our Troped Out guests.MY SUMMER DARLINGS is available in paperback today! Go grab your copy! And while ...
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    31 mins
  • Sherlockian Mysteries in Space with Malka Older

    Sherlockian Mysteries in Space with Malka Older
    Mar 2 2023
    Welcome to the latest episode of TROPED OUT PODCAST—a podcast where we interview your favorite (and future favorite) author’s about all things tropes! Today we are chatting with Science Fiction author, Malka Older! Malka Older is a writer, sociologist, and aid worker. Her science-fiction political thriller INFOMOCRACY was named one of the best books of 2016 by Kirkus, Book Riot, and the Washington Post. She is also the author of the sequels, NULL STATES (2017) and STATE TECTONICS (2018), and the full trilogy was nominated for a Hugo Award. She is also the creator of the serial NINTH STEP STATION and lead writer for the licensed sequel to ORPHAN BLACK, both currently running on Realm. Her short story and poetry collection AND OTHER DISASTERS came out in late 2019. Her short fiction and poetry can be found at WIRED, Future Tense, Leveler, Sundog Lit, Reservoir Lit, Inkscrawl, Rogue Agent, Tor.com, Fireside Fiction, and others. She has written opinion pieces for the New York Times, The Nation, Foreign Policy, and NBC Think.Em kicks things off by asking Malka what she is reading and loving lately and Malka came prepared! Malka is reading and loving: John Scalzi’s KAIJU PRESERVATION SOCIETY, Cherie Priest’s FLIGHT RISK, THE TOWN OF BABYLON by Alejandro Varela, THE LEFT HANDED BOOKSELLERS OF LONDON by Garth Nix, KILLERS OF A CERTAIN AGE by Deanna Raybourne, Emily Wilde’s ENCYCLOPEDIA OF FAERIES, Richard Osmond’s THURSDAY MURDER CLUB series, and Melinda Lo’s A SCATTER OF LIGHT, MERU by S.B. Divya, and finally Annalee Newitz’s THE TERRAFORMERS.EJ comments that Malka’s list covers a wide range of fiction—she wonders if Malka has books that are on her id list and Malka admits that she really loves different takes on Sherlock Holmes stories (so she wrote one!).EJ asks Malka what it is that makes a Sherlock-themed book so distinct. Malka explains that she thinks it has to do with the mystery being the focus—not the crime or gore or horror. There is a cerebral aspect that is always present in a Sherlock-style mystery.Malka says that there is something about neuro-divergence—when you have a character who thinks very differently than everyone around them and is fine-tuned particular approach. Having a flipped approach to how you observe and deduct. Also the relationships. Typically in a Sherlock-style mystery, you will have a relationship between two people (sometimes coded as neurodivergent and neurotypical—but not always). The story unfold between the partners and we can observe the contrast with how they approach the case.EJ asks Malka about Narrative Disorder—a disorder that is present in Malka’s book Infomacracy. Malka explains how she came up with the concept of Narrative Disorder and how she folded it into the story. Malka explains how there is a hunger for narratives—an addiction really. When coming up with the idea and concept of Narrative Disorder, she thought of how in the future we would feed this addiction.Malka has a new release titled THE MIMICKING OF KNOWN SUCCESSES. Malka tells EJ and Em about her newest book. It is a holmes-ian inspired novel. It is a fun comfort read for a murder mystery. It has dark academia vibes, and also long train rides, rainy weather outside with cozy indoor spaces. And it is set on Jupiter, after mankind has ruined Earth AND Mars.EJ has gathered from reading Malka’s other books, that one of the signatures of a Malka Older book is how incredibly international they are. How there is always a wide range of cultures present. EJ asks how she implements this feeling to Jupiter.Malka explains her process for creating that same feeling in a book that takes place with Jupiter transplants. Short answer—yes—she pulls it off perfectly! Em speculates that there are a ton of ideas and stories in Malka’s mind and asks how Malka decides which idea to attack and grown into a novel?Malka does have tons of ideas, and when she begins she knows characters and ideas—but not a solid plot. The more she explores character and place, the plot becomes evident.It’s time to play TROPED OUT!EJ starts the game with: Humanity Destroyed Earth or Humanity Destroyed Society?Em asks: Big Brother Is Watching or Mega Corporations Rule?EJ finishes things up with asking Secret Baby or Secret Robot?Em asks Malka and EJ how they’d interpret secret robot.(Sci-Fi robot ratatouille. Genius!)And that is a rap for this episode of TROPED OUT PODCAST!You can find today’s guest—Malka Older—online at: www.malkaolder.wordpress.comTwitter: @m_olderInstagram: @infomacracy Facebook: @MalkaOlderMalka’s books are available everywhere books are sold, including out Troped Out Bookshop, which you can visit to find books from all of our Troped Out guests.Malka’s latest book, THE MIMICKING OF KNOWN SUCCESSES (a Most Anticipated in 2023 pick from TODAY.com) releases on March 7. Be sure to pick up your copy!To stay up to date with Troped Out, visit our website (...
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    33 mins
  • Celebrating Murdery Women with Layne Fargo

    Celebrating Murdery Women with Layne Fargo
    Nov 18 2022
    Welcome to another episode of Troped Out Podcast! I am Emma C Wells. With me is my partner in crime—EJ Wenstrom. And we’ve got thriller author Layne Fargo with us for this episode!Layne Fargo writes killer books for feminist killjoys. She's the author of the thriller novels Temper and They Never Learn (currently in development as a television show), and coauthor of the bestselling Audible Original Young Rich Widows. She also co-created, co-hosts, and produces the podcast Unlikeable Female Characters on Lit Hub Radio.Layne lives in Chicago with a rescue pit bull and cat who are best friends, and the only man she never wants to murder (well, almost never). When she's not plotting twisted stories, she enjoys long walks in the local cemetery, binging trashy TV shows, and spending all her money at indie bookstores.EJ insists we start by talking about the trashy TV shows because she just finished Love is Blind season 3 on Netflix.Layne’s favorite at the moment is FBOY Island on HBO Max–which she rates as absolute garbage.Em wants to watch Love is Blind because she’s heard a lot about it. Her agent might be obsessed with it. E.J. concurs. It’s hard to stop watching–though somehow her spouse watched seasons 1 and 2 with her and then declined to watch season 3, leaving her in trashland alone. Layne’s partner pretends not to want to watch but then is always nearby when it’s on. Em says we’re lucky, her husband is over here watching stuff like “10 ways to make your own knives.” Or they watch food shows. Food shows! EJ recommends Chef’s Table on Netflix. (And insists she’s not sponsored by Netflix.)Everyone agrees being sponsored by Netflix would be a sweet deal. But Chef’s Table: They feature amazing chefs doing innovative stuff, like this butcher in Tuscany who serves these elaborate multi-course meal that uses every part of the animal. Speaking of using every part of the animal, Em’s been reading TENDER IS THE FLESH, which she deferred until after THanksgiving before it turned her vegan. But the next titles in her TBR were BONES AND ALL and A CERTAIN HUNGER.For the record BONES AND ALL is actually a really endearing coming-of-age story but also the girl eats people. Bones and all.It’s also going to be a movie soon, starring Timothy Chalamet.EJ appreciates someone else bringing the cannibalism aspect to the podcast for once. Layne calls it: Female cannibalism is having a mini-trend moment in fiction. A CERTAIN HUNGER was actually released from indie publisher Unnamed Press and gained traction on TikTok and became a huge success. We love these stories! It also started as an Audible Original. Speaking of Audible Originals, let’s talk YOUNG RICH WIDOWS.Layne co-authored it with three other authors–Kimberly Belle, Cate Holahan, Vanessa Lillie–-each of them wrote one of the core characters. They’re working on the sequel right now!EJ wonders what it’s like working with a group as an author, since it’s usually a loner role. They wrote it during COVID over Zoom, and it was almost like a TV writers’ room. It was fun!This book was more campy and rompy than what Layne usually writes, so it was a fun change of pace.It was set in the ‘80s and they wanted it to feel like an ‘80s movie with capers and crimes and fabulous clothes. We love super-campy here!Em asks if when you write for audiobook first, do you approach the writing any differently? A little–Layne said they focused a lot on distinct voices and a cinematic feel. She’s working on a separate project that will be fully scripted with sound effects and original music and stuff. Based on her other books, EJ is ready for one of the widows to end up being the killer. But NO SPOILERS. We love our murdery, rotten women. Layne agrees, a murdery femme fatale is one of her favorite tropes. Em asks if she has a favorite stabby woman character in books, tv, etc.?It’s hard to choose but Layne does love Villanelle–she likes a murderer who is enjoying herself! She’s gotten criticism for writing murdery women who don’t feel bad about it, but she insists they have no conflicted feeling about it. Em appreciates that since the new Taylor Swift album Midnights dropped, THEY NEVER LEARN has come through her TikTok feed a lot with ‘Vigilante Shit.’Layne says ‘Vigilante Shit’ is her jam! Her sales definitely went up when that started. She’s ready for the TV so they can use it as the theme song. We’re all big fans of the rotten women here – Em also wrote a stellar murdery woman and shares amazing teasers for it on TikTok even though it’s not out yet!So why do we love these very very bad women? When you write a female character who enjoys killing it’s a real hangup for publishing. Even more so if she has sex, has a normal life, etc. You can’t even have a normal, generally good female character without someone having a gripe. For Layne it’s wish fulfillment–men make her angry ...
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    36 mins

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