Ken welcomes back essayist, teacher, guidance counselor, and ordained minister Nathaniel Manderson from his home in Boston. Last Summer, Nate took thirty days to walk the 500 mile Camino do Santiago pilgrimage tradition says was taken by St. James, the Apostle. It's the same journey memorialized by the Emilio Estevez film starring his father, Martin Sheen called The Way. Nate shares his remarkable journey - the prompting to go, the people he met, lessons along the way, and the intensely emotional climax that final day as he entered the Cathedral de Santiago de Compostela (consecrated in 1211 C.E.) Just a few days before their conversation, Nate's most recent opinion piece was published in the Boston Globe entitled Democrats: Let Me (Re)Introduce You to the Working Class. Even with his advanced academic degrees, he considers himself a member of that working class. Nate is a contributor to the popular news site SALON. His author page makes the introduction:

Nathaniel Manderson was educated at a conservative seminary, trained as a minister, ordained through the American Baptist Churches USA and guided by liberal ideals. Throughout his career he has been a pastor, a career counselor, an academic adviser, a high school English teacher and an advocate for first-generation and low-income students, along with a paper delivery man, a construction worker, a FedEx package handler and whatever else he could do to take care of his family.

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Ken welcomes writer, teacher, preacher and justice advocate, Jim Wallis. Rev. Wallis’ new book, The False White Gospel: Rejecting Christian Nationalism, Reclaiming True Faith, and Refounding Democracy is getting high marks and a wide reading. It’s a timely and prophetic challenge in an era of polarization and worse, the advancement in America of what Jim calls an heretical version of The Gospel. Wallis calls this a “Bonhoeffer moment.” Silence is not an option. Ken and Jim reminisce over their days together at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School where they both earned a Master of Divinity degree. The famed Carl F. H. Henry influenced them both. In 1973, Henry and Wallis framed The Chicago Declaration along with other prominent evangelical signatories, a document that rings true to this very day. Jim has authored more than a dozen books. He is founder and served as chief editor of Sojourner’s Magazine. Today, he holds the prestigious Chair in Faith and Justice at Georgetown University in Washington DC named for his friend Bishop Desmund Tutu. In a wide-ranging conversation, they talk about Wallis’ journey since those seminary days, putting him in the center of the Civil Rights movement, appearing over the years as a regular on CNN, MSNBC, The Today Show, and many other major outlets as a Social Action alternative to the infamous Religious Right. Ken asks Jim why he still considers himself an “evangelical.” Jim shares inside stories about his many friends - Ron Sider, Ron Dellums, Howard Thurman, John Lewis, Barack Obama, Jamie Raskin and many more. SHOW NOTES

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Ken welcomes historian, author, and media commentator Martyn Whittock from his home across the Pond just outside London. Martyn read Ken’s Substack series on Biblical Authority and reached out with some comments. It prompted this lively conversation - and led to another focus: Martyn’s article recently published in the UK - How US Evangelicals Could Affect the Entire World. Whittock, a licensed minister in the Church of England, is a self-described “Evangelical.” For years, he has been a student of American Evangelicalism. He gives us a fascinating insight into the differences between our two countries: in America - the preponderance of MAGA Evangelicals, and in Britain - a very different sort of evangelical. Martyn expresses his deep concern over the prospect of a second term for the 45th President not only for the USA. He believes a second Trump Presidency will have an egregious adverse effect on Europe and the entire world. He explains this in considerable detail. Then, Ken asks Martyn about two recent appearances on British television as a history specialist. In the first, Martyn comments on the recent terror attack in Moscow that killed over one hundred in a large theater. In the second, he is asked about the Princess of Wales and the conspiracy theories that surrounded her hospital stay and absence from public life. You can see those clips by clicking on the links. SHOW NOTES

Martyn Whittock on British TV: CBN LIVE on The Princess of Wales | Talk TV with Trisha Goddard on the Moscow Terror Attack (11-22 minutes into the program)

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For a second time, Ken welcomes Rev. Ben Cremer to the podcast for Season 5. Ken starts by thanking Ben for that first interview, "Myths We Believe," which is far and away the most downloaded podcast of Ken's more than 300 episodes (exceeding the former first-place interview with Kristin Kobes Du Mez). Ben is a prolific author, just finishing up the manuscript of his first book. He has a big audience for his newsletter, which is delivered weekly on Sunday mornings. He calls it "Into The Gray." It's a resource of books, podcasts, and then a thoughtful essay of his own around important issues of the day. Ken chose three to discuss on this podcast - first, "A Troubling Conversation" highlighting the commonly held doctrine of Total Depravity. The second contemplates the common default answer when Christians encounter those who hold opposite views. They'll say, "Well, they aren't REAL Christians." The third addresses a spiritual discipline that is widely ignored in the traditions both Ben and Ken grew up in - lament. Ben brings fresh, sometimes provocative thinking to all three issues. Ken predicts that this conversation will be another that breaks records. SHOW NOTES

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In this election year, immigration has become a major political issue. Some would like you to believe immigration is tantamount to a veritable “invasion” of undesirables or worse. However, since the 1980s, a little-known faith-based movement has taken a very different view. Humanitarian organizations, legal advocates, and religious groups have collaborated to provide advocacy, shelter, and assimilation. Thanks to generous grants and support from the Henry Luce Foundation, the Institute for Religion, Media, and Civic Engagement and the American Academy of Religion, Executive Producer Brad Onshi presents a seven-episode podcast that tells the story of “The Sanctuary Movement.” Scholars Lloyd Barba, Ph.D. (Professor, Amherst College) and Sergio Gonzales, Ph.D. (Professor, Marquette University) bring their research to the program with a focus on asylum seekers from Central America. The Sanctuary Movement has been active for hundreds of years - around the world. But it began in earnest in this country in 1982 with a wave of immigrants from war-torn El Salvador and Guatemala. It’s a story of faith as radical hospitality and the tension over “the borders between church and state.” Ken and Dr. Barba talk about the podcast series and how the current political climate distorts and harms both immigrants and Americans. SHOW NOTES

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The two Ken’s reconvene at about 23 days out. The predictions seem to be coming true. The conspiracies, the threats, the misinformation, the falsehoods, and name-calling all proliferate. Kemp and Fong remain stymied that the race could possibly be this close. From the outset, the Two Kens make movie recommendations: Kemp - Bad Faith and Fong - Conclave. It opens up a conversation about Catholicism, J.D. Vance’s conversion and the legacy of Vatican II. As the election closes in, there are hopeful signs. Malcolm Gladwell and Michael Moore weigh in. Kamala Harris’s energy and focus remain strong - she seems undeterred by the vicious, fabricated attacks. She appears fearlessly in a wide range of interviews across the media spectrum. With the former president’s and his running mate’s fallacious charges of theft, mismanagement, and “incompetence,” they frustrate recovery efforts prompted by the twin hurricane tragedies - Helene and Milton. The former president’s claim of superior genes and the suggestion that undocumented immigrants carry “bad genes” comes right out of the blatantly racist pseudoscience of eugenics. They finish with some suggestions on how to survive until election day - and better, to do all we can to secure this critical victory.

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Just this year, Neelam Warren-Pal graduated from DePauw University with a Bachelor of Arts degree in Communications. Her late grandfather, Melvin Warren, was Ken's classmate in the late 1960s.

When Ken left Southern California after graduating high school in 1966, he traveled to Chicago where he became a student at the Moody Bible Institute. Among his freshman dorm mates was Melvin Warren. They had long talks into the night. In retrospect, it was a clash of cultures. Four years later, Melvin called a press conference and announced that the Bible school was a white, hopelessly racist institution. Rather than receive an education, it caused him much harm. See JET MAGAZINE article from 1970.

All these years, Ken lived with the suspicion that his response to Melvin’s life story on the South Side of Chicago had contributed to his profound disappointment. Several years ago, Ken attempted to locate him - only to find that Melvin had died - too soon. Ken wrote a letter to Melvin and read it on a Beached White Male podcast episode - posted April 17, 2020.

Several months later from her college dorm, Neelam, Melvin’s granddaughter, decided on her own to search Google for the grandfather she had never met. Ken’s podcast came up. Neelam listened as this stranger from California read a letter to her grandfather. He reflected on their days in Bible school more than fifty years before. Neelam shared her discovery with her Mom, Karen, Melvin’s daughter.

Since then Ken, Karen and Neelam have become friends. In this episode, you will hear Neelam’s version of this heartwarming story. A graduate of DePauw University, Neelam hopes to be a podcaster. Her plan is to interview popular hip-hop artists. Ken and Neelam talk about her favorites: Doechii, Noname, and Megan Thee Stallion. SHOW NOTES

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The Republican Vice-President candidate had two objectives: 1) to appear the “nice guy” (as opposed to the extreme MAGA champion) and 2) to make the former President’s campaign sound reasonable (which it isn’t). It seemed to work until the second half. New to the national stage, Tim Walz had a rough start. Prepped by Pete Buttigieg, he appeared nervous and over-prepared. Ken compares the governor’s opener to showing up for a tough exam after an all-night cramming session. But as Walz got comfortable, he scored big points, pushing Vance to display his authentic MAGA self. Ken and Betsey review the high and low moments of the debate. They reflect on the journeys of the two candidates that brought them to the national spotlight. Then they turn to other subjects: the passing of the incomparable actor Maggie Smith and a major Chicago Tribune article exposing Wheaton College’s connection to both Project 2025 and Evangelicals for Harris.

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