Times journalist and co-author of a new book on the current Labour Government, Patrick Maguire, joins Bernard and Alex to discuss Keir Starmer and particularly the relationship with his Chief of Staff, Morgan McSweeney.

PATRICK MAGUIRE

ON McSWEENEY

"People say, ‘Why is this the Morgan McSweeney story with Keir Starmer as a supporting actor?’—because that’s what happened."

"Morgan McSweeney was doing this long before Keir Starmer began to think seriously about Labour politics."

"His polling showed, as early as 2017, that there was one person in the sweet spot to lead Labour: Keir Starmer."

"Morgan McSweeney recruits Keir Starmer. He picks Keir Starmer, not the other way around."

"McSweeney is seen by many in Labour as more important than Starmer himself—some say their ultimate loyalty is to him."

ON STARMER

"Keir didn’t start anywhere apart from vaguely progressive."

"He genuinely believes that if he can run things better, things will run more smoothly."

"His political formation, unusually for a leader of the Labour Party, has taken place in real time as Labour leader."

"Starmer is constantly defined by events and is something of a political opportunist."

"He is not thinking, ‘the political solution to this is X or Y’—he just takes advice and adapts."

"There is no such thing as Starmerism because Starmer abhors ideology—when the left accuse him of it, he is genuinely horrified."

"It’s remarkable that as late as 2022, Starmer needed outside advisors to ask, 'What is it you actually believe?'"

"You can bet against Keir Starmer, but often he will, despite himself, surprise you."

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