Imagine if suburban buses became a go-to service, where seamless, frequent, and connected rides weren’t just an option but a game-changer. This week on The Streets and People podcast, Wendy sits down with Jonathan English, a transport expert from NYU’s Marin Institute of Urban Management, to talk about how suburban bus services can be built to stick - really stick - with riders, instead of falling into the “empty bus, poor service” trap so common in North America, Australia, New Zealand and the UK.

Drawing from Toronto’s success story, Jonathan explains how setting up consistent and high-quality bus services from the very start made all the difference in newer suburban areas. It's about more than just buses arriving on time - it’s about creating a true alternative to cars. Jonathan's insights span Toronto to Zurich and car-dependent Espoo on the outskirts of Helsinki, offering a front-row view of how integration and frequency can transform buses from overlooked to essential.

Wendy and Jonathan talk about what it takes to make these services thrive: cohesive networks, big-picture transport planning, and sound financial models that create a real foundation for growth. The conversation wraps with practical tips for local leaders, residents and anyone invested in improving suburban bus services. Because building bus networks that work - and that people want to use - takes a smart approach and a commitment to stick to it.

We mention the bus services in Espoo in Finland which Jonathan speaks on https://youtu.be/vAygH6SZg28?si=ew6pbxszLN5B8ju1

Why Did America Give Up on Mass Transit? (Don’t Blame Cars.) Streetcar, bus, and metro systems have been ignoring one lesson for 100 years: Service drives demand. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-08-31/why-is-american-mass-transit-so-bad-it-s-a-long-story

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