In the third episode, we discuss the concept of “points vs. assists'' with two early readers of BEYOND LEANING IN, Jeff Martin and Jackson Boyer and explore the role men can have in recognizing and addressing gender inequity in the workplace. From meeting etiquette to the differences between the conditioning men and women receive from an early age, there is a lot to talk about!

Welcome to BEYOND LEANING IN, a podcast designed to inspire candid discussion about gender gaps in the workplace. All too often, the “real talk” about the challenges that professional women face happens behind closed doors. Author Melanie Ho is on a mission to change that through her new book, BEYOND LEANING IN. She is joined in this podcast by co-host Carla Hickman as the two longtime friends discuss the ideas and research that inform Melanie’s book. You will also be invited to listen and join the conversation with early readers, women and men across generations and a wide range of professions, as they reflect, discuss and debate the ideas in the book. 

Jump straight into:

(01:27) - Male allies and the role they can play in combating gender inequity - “We're not going to solve the problem if it's just women talking to one another. That just reinforces the idea that it's our fault and that we all need to lean in.”

(03:00) - On the limitations of diversity and equity training - “So much of the problem with current diversity, equity and inclusion trainings is that you're running from meeting to meeting and then suddenly are thrust into this situation where you have to discuss really complicated topics without any of that reflection beforehand.”

(12:55) - The points vs. assists metaphor explained - “It was like the value of the point, as opposed to the value of the assist, the assist helping someone else advance or clarify their ideas should be as important as each individual scoring more points.”

(16:09) - Guest Jackson Boyer discusses being coached to speak up more - “I definitely have my own socialization to be assertive in a meeting, not just as a CEO, but as a man in general. And I think I was very quiet in college seminars and sort of beat myself up because of that. A lot of my friends were very good at inserting themselves into conversations. I'd actually been told by advisors to interrupt people more, to exert my agenda on the meeting.”

(24:40) - Guest Jeff Martin reflects on men talking to each other - “Conversations among men about gender equity in the workplace are probably few and far between.”

(33:56) - Carla explaining the true story that inspired this chapter and concept - “Early readers, particularly with this specific excerpt that we all just listened to, they're like, ‘Did Melanie dream this up? Where did this come from? Like, you know, did this come from her research? Was this personal experience?’ And I happen to know that this one actually does have a really good backstory.”

Resources

Get the book Beyond Leaning In by Melanie Ho

See and share Melanie’s 31 Days of #BeyondLeaningIn Webcomics 

Follow Melanie Ho on Instagram or Twitter

Follow Carla Hickman on Instagram or Twitter

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