In this conversation Naomi talks to Theatre Director Tanushka Marah about how she ensures people have a positive experience.

Tanushka talks about how you are not just making a show, you are also building a community and creating a culture. She talks about how there is a positive experience that comes from the striving and the struggle for the collective discovery of reaching for the impossible.

She talks about the conventions that she has in place during sessions, such as a check in, technique work, ensemble working before starting to rehearse. She reflects on being able to observe the relationships between people in the room and seeing that these are positive and reciprocal for people.

No matter how big the cast is she tries to check in with everyone individually. She places great importance on the space and time before rehearsals or in the breaks, noticing the people who are on their own looking awkward and checking in with them.

She talks about the challenges when there is so much diversity in the room. There needs to be continual care and support to keep people engaged. She talks about the importance of getting people to work together independently so that they create their own relationships with each other. When friendships start to form the social glue also keeps people happy and engaged with the process.

Tanushka talks about the importance of making people feel like there are no stupid ideas. It can also be as simple as ensuring that people are fed and watered. There needs to be camaraderie and playfulness in the room. It is a real duty to generate a positive atmosphere. People love the joy of co-creating and working together, without observation, spreading out across the whole building. Even the ideas that don’t get used help you see where you are not going and are invaluable.

In this episode Naomi talks to freelance artist Dan Thompson about the responsibility of knowing an appropriate amount about who you are working with.

Dan talks about the impact that the work can have on people who participate in it. At its most basic level we need to know their access needs. But at a deeper level we need to understand who they are and why they are participating in the project.

He talks about the diversity of approaches that are needed when working in different contexts. Sometimes it is a deep, long term relationship and other times it is more of a fleeting relationship. As a freelance artist he has his own safeguarding policy in place. This doesn’t need to be complicated - his is less than one side of A4.

Quite often he doesn’t know anything about what has happened in someone’s life and he is okay with that. There is a discussion about the freedom in not knowing and being able to treat everyone equally. Sometimes this enables people to participate in an art project for the first time as they are free of any label or preconceptions of them.

Each artist needs to decide for themselves how much they need to know in each context they are working in. Dan talks about how layered and complex this decision making process is. When it works it can change people’s lives.

Dan talks about a challenge involved being around holding people’s traumatic stories. He talks about the importance of having someone that the artist can talk to and offload what they have heard to. A risk of not knowing enough is that it is possible to alienate people so that they do not come back again. With all of it, Dan believes that artists need to be kind and decent to the people they are working with.

Naomi Alexander is the CEO and Artistic Director of Brighton People's Theatre. Her AHRC funded research identified 20 qualities, skills and responsibilities that are important for artists leading co-creative practice. The report and illustrations are available here.

X: https://twitter.com/naomi_ontheatre

IG: https://www.instagram.com/naomi.ontheatre/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomiontheatre/

Dan Thompson is a Freelance Artist. You can find out more about his work here.

X: https://twitter.com/artistsmakers

IG: https://www.instagram.com/danthompson33/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dan-thompson-397501/

In this episode, Naomi has a conversation with her colleague at Brighton People's Theatre; Jack Parris, about the responsibility of creating a structure or purpose. He talks about the importance of this responsibility because without it, the work can feel uncontained and daunting. The structure creates limitations and gives a picture to everyone involved in the project of what the parameters are for people to play in.

Jack tries to communicate as clearly as possible about where we are in the co-creation process. He tries to generate as much clarity as possible to demystify the theatre making process so that people have an overview of the structure and purpose.

When the structure and purpose is clear, you see people really playing with freedom. With clear parameters the conversation is richer and people feel safer. There is a safe container for the work.

It is challenging during co-created work to hold this responsibility as there are so many unknowns during the process. Jack talks about the importance of being able to be clear about what is known and unknown at each moment in the process. This can be frustrating for people who might feel less comfortable working with so many unknowns. It can also be challenging letting go of ideas, as not everything that is suggested can be integrated into the final project. Having a clear purpose on why we are doing this can help with decision making, but at the start of a process even the purpose will not be clear.

There are risks if this is not held effectively that people lose interest in the work and get confused about what they are doing and why. It is really important to have as much clarity as possible for the organisation, starting at the top with a clear vision and mission. This enables decision making to become clearer and easier with a clear purpose and structure guiding the work.

Naomi Alexander is the CEO and Artistic Director of Brighton People's Theatre. Her AHRC funded research Let's Create: Do we know how to? identified 20 qualities, skills and responsibilities that are important for artists leading co-creative practice. The report and illustrations are available here.

X: https://twitter.com/naomi_ontheatre

IG: https://www.instagram.com/naomi.ontheatre/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomiontheatre/

Jack Parris is the Associate Director of Brighton People's Theatre.

IG: https://www.instagram.com/jackparrisd/

In this episode Naomi talks to Jess Thorpe, Co-Artistic Director of the award-winning Scottish company Glass Performance. Jess talks about through the co-creative process, the artist is bringing the framework and tools and the non professional artist is bringing their lived experience. For her it is important to ensure that the non-professional artists understand the process they are going through.

She thinks it is very important that she is not extractive, taking the best stories for her artistic glory. She prioritises the relationship with people she is working with and considers people’s emotional needs throughout the process.

Over the years she has created a process that she can pass on to others (with her collaborator Tashi Gore). Sometimes people expect a script. This is particularly prevalent in a prison context where she often works. She gives each of the stages of the process a name and writes this structure on the wall so that people understand where they are in the process. She constantly creates a shared language in the room.

Jess talks about the importance of rituals to create opportunities for feedback and dialogue within the group. They utilise questions a lot. They also have an Anonymous Anxieties box which anyone can put a question or concern in so that issues can be raised in a safe way. It brings multiple voices into the room. She brings this box into the process a couple of times when she feels she needs to know what is really going on in the space. It’s not there all the time as she would not want anxiety to overwhelm the space.

She talks about how their partnership work with Barnardos has enabled a youth worker to be part of the process who holds responsibility for the wellbeing of the young people. This enables her to focus on the theatre. This has been a game changer for Jess. She also has access to a dramatherapist for support in her work at Dundee Rep. Jess talks about the importance of being trauma informed so that everyone comes out of the project more empowered than when they started it.

In reflecting on the challenges of this responsibility, Jess talks about how exhausting it can be. Over the years she has developed stronger boundaries with a clearly articulated path ahead for the relationship once the project has come to an end. There is also a challenge around the level of editorial support that participants might want or need. Sometimes participants will know best what they are capable of and trust that the work is a vehicle for something important to them.

Jess talks about the risks of human pain if the project is not held in a way that feels good. The fear is that someone feels taken advantage of and that work has been made on the back of their life. She has been asked challenging questions by participants which have enabled her to grow because she was scared of them but engaged with them.

She says that you need to ask yourself as an artist why you are doing it. She is concerned about social tourism - where the artist and audience is a tourist in someone else’s social context with a power dynamic that is problematic. She is also concerned about value-signalling that some artists fall into a trap of talking publicly about who they are working with as if they are doing people a huge service. For her it is about lifting people up in the dialogue around your work, not lifting yourself up.

Naomi Alexander is the CEO and Artistic Director of Brighton People's Theatre. Her AHRC funded research Let's Create: Do we know how to? identified 20 qualities, skills and responsibilities that are important for artists leading co-creative practice. The report and illustrations are available here.

X: @naomi_ontheatre

IG: @naomi.ontheatre

LinkedIn: @naomiontheatre

Jess Thorpe is the Co-Artistic Director of Glass Performance.

X: @glassperform

IG: @glassperformance

#co-creation #theatre #leadership #arts #artist #knowyourlimits #letscreate #embodied

In this episode Naomi talks to Sarah Blowers, Founder and former Artistic Director of Strike a Light in Gloucester.

Sarah talks about the complexities of accountability and how important it is to be accountable to the people we are working with. She talks about getting funding for co-created work without detailed activity plans as this is to be determined through the process. For her the accountability is less to funders and more to the people she is working with. She has often worked with people who are on benefits and while she believes that people need to be paid for their work, there are unkind systems in place that prevent this.

She talks about the system being really exclusive to people who could be better suited to working in their community. Larger organisations have the infrastructure to be accountable to funders but smaller grassroots organisations have the networks to be accountable to their community.

Sarah talks about the grassroots organisation GL4 and the transformative impact that the accountability to the community has had. She argues that the models of accountability are outdated as the systems don’t work for small organisations.

She tries to work in a way that is not always top down, Artistic Director led. She talks about the diversity of audiences that are attracted to see work in their community and programmed by community producers - this just doesn’t happen elsewhere. She says that the Artistic Directors need to leave their ego at the door and be accountable to the community.

Sarah talks about the importance of proper monitoring and evaluation which paint a picture of what is really happening to be accountable to both funders and the community. She is clear that it is public money and that there need not be fear about accountability. Sometimes it is hard to hold people accountable, particularly if you are working with a friend. She thinks that to be ambitious and to have high expectations is good, but the resources need to be used wisely and to be accountable for their actions. This is particularly hard for producers of co-created work.

In terms of having difficult conversations she thinks it is important to name it early and not let it go on too long. She thinks this is particularly challenging when the systems which artists and arts organisations work in are not very accessible. It is hard to ask for help, especially when working in a world that is so deeply biased. Always approach accountability conversations with care and kindness. Most people working in this field are over-worked and under-paid.

In this episode Naomi talks to Jason Camilleri about the responsibility of safeguarding.

Jason describes how safeguarding is at the forefront of how he approaches his work with young people aged 11-25 at the Wales Millennium Centre. He believes that without it you are at risk of turning young people away from the arts. One of their projects involves employing young people to run a radio station, so there are many layers of safeguarding to be considered.

He talks through practical tools such as carrying out risk assessments, ensuring the physical space is suitable for the young people and ensuring that young people are safeguarded when taken on trips to festivals such as Boomtown. By carrying out detailed documentation, called an Op Order, they anticipate almost every single thing that can happen, and this is continually reviewed and improved.

They also have a safeguarding team with representatives from across every department in the organisation. The team will review any issues that come up and are followed through until completion.

The long term nature of their work means that they often hold relationships with young people where there are safeguarding concerns. They realised that they needed the same level of care and attention as other agencies and have put significant time and resources into thinking about how the organisation can ensure Safeguarding and Wellbeing is embedded in their work. Now they have an officer who is responsible for Safeguarding and Wellbeing in attendance at all sessions with young people. When someone is triggered by something happening in the co-creative process they have a responsible person to discuss it with.

Jason believes that when this responsibility is held effectively there is proper nurture and support for the young people. Conversely he has seen projects in other organisations promise the world but not deliver and this has been upsetting for everyone involved. One of the challenges is around having enough diversity in the team that hold the responsibility so that young people with different protected characteristics have someone they can talk to that they identify with. They have lots of people across the organisation who are trained in Mental Health First Aid and who are up to date with the wider context that young people are facing in the world.

Naomi Alexander is the CEO and Artistic Director of Brighton People's Theatre . Her AHRC funded research Let's Create: Do we know how to? identified 20 qualities, skills and responsibilities that are important for artists leading co-creative practice. The report and illustrations are available here.

X: https://twitter.com/naomi_ontheatre

IG: https://www.instagram.com/naomi.ontheatre/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomiontheatre/

Jason Camilleri is the Creative Learning Senior Producer at the Wales Millennium Centre.

Youth Collective at Wales Millennium Centre

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jason-camilleri-431a7475/

#co-creation #theatre #leadership #arts #artist #safeguarding #young people #letscreate #embodied

In this episode Naomi talks to the freelance artist Kelly Green about the responsibility of safety.

Kelly talks about how important this is but is clear that it is not possible to create a completely safe space. She shares a poem called An Invitation to Brave Space, which is about acknowledging that we cannot create a safe space. Kelly has this poem up on the wall in every session she runs and reads it out at the start of each session. She finds that this is a great stimulus for creating a group contract. This can be a great way to acknowledge that people in the room might, for example, hold different political opinions to her as an artist. It is not her job to change people’s minds, but to enable conversations.

Kelly articulates how no space can be safe at the start of a project, where people are strangers and the artist may have a different background to the participants. You cannot know what people’s lived experience is, you cannot know what people’s views are. Kelly describes her experience of working with a group of people who hold really opposite ideological views to her and how she navigated this in a project.

For safety to be built Kelly believes that there needs to be accountability, so that if someone says something that is upsetting for others, this is named and discussed. The way she works is about being open, honest and relatable. She believes that safe exchange is built in this way; by, with and for the people she is working with. She believes that there is safety in acknowledging that there are similarities and differences between her and who she works with.

When safety is created and held effectively Kelly believes you get the best work possible and a real sense of community and equity in the room. If artists can create a safe exchange between people who have different lived experiences or political views then we are winning.

Safety isn’t just about the participants, it is also about the artist too. There are risks around burnout for the artist and around this not being fully acknowledged. Sometimes there are expectations from funders or other agencies involved that can put unsafe pressure on the artist and participants. It is important to be clear about why you are there, what the intention is behind the work. Being explicit, clear and transparent about intentions can create safety.

The conversation ends with an exploration about the power dynamics of payment of professional artists and voluntary contribution of non-professional artists and the way that people are valued in this.

Naomi Alexander is the CEO and Artistic Director of Brighton People's Theatre . Her AHRC funded research Let's Create: Do we know how to? identified 20 qualities, skills and responsibilities that are important for artists leading co-creative practice. The report and illustrations are available here.

X: https://twitter.com/naomi_ontheatre

IG: https://www.instagram.com/naomi.ontheatre/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomiontheatre/

Kelly Green is a Freelance Artist. You can find out more about her work here: https://www.kellyg.net/

X: https://twitter.com/kellygCHAV

IG: https://www.instagram.com/kellygchav/

#co-creation #theatre #leadership #arts #artist #safety #responsibility #letscreate #embodied