Mark introduces the topic of communication and within that general topic, the subtopic of persuasion. He then emphasizes the value of having a framework. He puts our framework in perspective

Jim chimes in about the idea of having a framework and emphasizes the IMC framework

Jim shares his 5 W’s framework and how helpful it has been for him in a variety of projects. How it adds perspective for both parties

He shares the value of effective people being clear

Jim asks Mark about his framework

Mark shares his childhood influences around communication and then his framework

What do you say?

How do you say it?

To whom do you say it?

When do you say it?

Both guys agree they made their frameworks theirs…no matter where it came from

Mark brings up the image Jim shared and begins to share the examples of lazy responses versus helpful responses

The guys dig into examples of how powerful specific words are and how changing a word can change the tone of the whole conversation

Problem versus “opportunity” or “challenge”

All the specific examples from Jim’s image become the conversations

Each example uncovers how simple shifts, different words change the whole tone and emotion of the conversation

Both guys share their experience with each example and how they have both made the mistake of using the lazy language and relearned the helpful response

They both emphasize the importance of not apologizing. Never apologize unless you’ve done real wrong

Mark shares - don’t say, “to be honest with you”. “Frank” or Jim’s option “transparent”

They discuss transparency as a double edged sword

“I’m too busy” means I’m too busy for you

They both have a laugh about “too busy”

“That’s not my” job versus, “let me get you to the right person”

Mark shares his mentor’s story about personal accountability

“I’ll try” versus “I’ll take care of it”. Jim has a different angle on this one

Mark frames it as personal accountability. I won’t dismiss you, we’ll get it taken care of

Apologizing comes up again and both guys reiterate the problem with saying you’re sorry

Jim uses “I own that one”. “That one’s on me”. Take ownership

Mark - “sorry never works for me unless you really fucked something up”

Mark shares some media examples of how apologies become bigger problems

Jim says behaviors are more important than words - Mark agrees

The next example is disagreement - “You’re wrong” versus “I have a different perspective on this than you and I’d like to share it with you”

Jim cites people who actually enjoy conflict to garner attention

“This might sound stupid but…” versus “Let’s try this.” Naysayers are everywhere

Jim agrees as an inventor he always shares new ideas…the value of reframing ideas until consensus is established

Mark brings up Jordan Peterson talking about Elon Musk and comparison (Elon’s roommate story)

Jim - All comparison leads to misery

Jim shares “I have an hypothesis” versus a theory. An hypothesis is designed to be challenged…designed to be criticized

He shares the difference between an hypothesis and a theory

A theory has been proven. An hypothesis has not yet been proven

“No worries”… “I’m happy to help”

Both guys discuss the nuance of this one

Mark feels like “no worries” is kind of a throw away

They conclude that this whole exercise is an exercise in self awareness

The final example is recommending something to someone

‘I think maybe we should” versus “I recommend we do this…”

Jim says “I think” makes him feel like “Why should I listen to you”

Mark finishes with his 4 pronged framework

He confirms that listening and asking questions before speaking is almost always the best strategy

Jim finishes with the value of clarifying assumptions, discussing desired outcomes, “who, not how” and what are the necessary resources?

Mark shares his support of this as authentic…for both parties