In this final episode of the economic and systems thinking mini-series on the refi podcast, Tony Lai, co-steward of Mother Tree Labs and fellow at Stanford's Codex, joins Maya and Tereza to explore the intersection of computational law, commons governance, and ecological transition. Tony offers insights into creating mindful economies and shares personal tips for regeneration. The conversation covers institutional versus extitutional approaches to governance, the role of computational law in regenerative systems, and the importance of community-driven initiatives. Tony shares experiences from New Zealand's legal personhood for nature and discusses the development of Mother Tree Labs in nurturing regenerative communities. Key themes include the role of mythmaking, storytelling, and community in reshaping legal frameworks and economic systems. Tony emphasizes the importance of attunement practices for personal and relational growth, offering a unique blend of law, music, and community engagement to foster a regenerative future. 👉 ReFi Podcast: https://twitter.com/ReFiPodcast 👉 ReFi DAO: https://twitter.com/refidaoist 👉 Tony's LinkedIn profile is here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tonyklai/ 👉 Tony's X: https://x.com/lai 👉 Tereza's X profile: https://x.com/TerezaBizkova 👉 Maya's X: https://x.com/mayazdentzel 00:00 Introduction to the ReFi Podcast 01:22 Welcoming Tony Lai 04:34 Tony's Background and Journey 09:09 The Role of Law in Regenerative Systems 15:29 Academia and Computational Law 22:42 Mother Tree Labs and Mythology 28:23 Regenerative Finance Explained 33:02 Surprising Insights from New Zealand 38:18 Extitutional Theory and Community Governance 43:19 Personal and Relational Regeneration 46:49 Rapid Fire Questions and Conclusion