Join Rev Archie Poulos and myself as we explore this episode - 'In the Trenches: Understanding the Modern Pastoral Experience,' as we look at the complex world of church leadership. Archie is Head of Ministry (Moore Theological College) and Ministry
Director, (Centre for Ministry Development).

Based on Archie's PhD research, and mine, we explore the evolving nature of ministry, the hidden pressures facing clergy, and their impacts on families and personal life. We discuss crucial topics like leadership theories, burnout, and the paradox between convictions and behaviors. This episode also offers important advice for pastors, congregations, and denominational leaders. Dive in as we navigate the challenging yet rewarding landscape of pastoral ministry.

Show notes and reflection questions

Download my research report and reflections

Watch the video version of this podcast

Complete a Clergy Wellbeing Quiz here

Send us a text

Podcast Disclaimer:

Please be aware that the opinions and viewpoints shared on this podcast are personal to me and my guests, and do not represent the stance of any institution. This podcast aims to present findings for open discussion and dialogue, inviting listeners to engage critically and draw their own conclusions. While the content serves informational purposes, it is not a substitute for professional advice. Thank you for joining me on this journey of exploration and conversation!

Ever feel like you're on the brink of burnout, especially in these pandemic-ridden times? You're not alone. On today's episode, we've got the honour of hosting Dr. Grant Bickerton, who takes a deep dive into the changing landscape of Christian ministry and how it's impacting those on the front lines. We begin by exploring the unique challenges and psychological toll the pandemic has had on Christian workers, resulting in significant loss and grief that can eventually lead to burnout.

We also dive into the murky waters of job satisfaction and wellbeing in ministry. Grant shares his views on isolation and loneliness among Christian workers and provides insights on why many are reluctant to admit they're considering leaving ministry. We also talk candidly about the complexities of family suffering as a driver for self-sacrificial roles in ministry and the critical need for measuring and addressing the causes of burnout.

Further into the episode, we confront some tough issues such as conflict, bullying, and leadership dynamics within ministry. We examine the damaging implications of workplace conflicts and potential bullying, and delve into the importance of accepting leadership and understanding the role of personal development and self-care plans.

Finally, we discuss how to best nurture and empower team members, stressing the importance of providing room for growth and risk-taking. Join us for this gripping conversation with Dr. Bickerton and learn how we can navigate through these challenging times in ministry together.

Are you a ministry leader looking for a pastoral/professional supervisor? Perhaps you are needing some counselling support? Send me an email: valerie@effectiveserving.com.au

Show notes and reflection questions

Download my research report and reflections

Watch the video version of this podcast

Complete a Clergy Wellbeing Quiz here

Send us a text

Podcast Disclaimer:

Please be aware that the opinions and viewpoints shared on this podcast are personal to me and my guests, and do not represent the stance of any institution. This podcast aims to present findings for open discussion and dialogue, inviting listeners to engage critically and draw their own conclusions. While the content serves informational purposes, it is not a substitute for professional advice. Thank you for joining me on this journey of exploration and conversation!

Today, we're joined by Professor Donald Guthrie. Professor Donald Guthrie teaches at Trinity International University, and is the co-author of Resilient Ministry: What Pastors Told us about Surviving and Thriving, a book based on a five-year intensive research project on the frontlines of pastoral ministry. In this episode, he shares with Valerie his insights on social media conflict, the dangers of isolation, what helps clergy spouses flourish, the need for spiritual and emotional formation, and the value of professional and peer support.

Download my research report and reflections

Watch the video version of this podcast

Complete a Clergy Wellbeing Quiz here

Reflection Questions:

• Reflect on your current levels of physical, emotional, spiritual and mental health. Which areas are most in need of restoration?
• Consider your attitude towards, and involvement with, social media. Are you demonstrating a ‘winsome witness’ and ‘gospel savvy’?
• Who would you consider to be your closest friends? What’s your level of connection with them?
• If you’re married, how would you respond to the statements: ‘I have friends’, ‘My spouse has friends’, ‘We have friends?’
• If you’re married, what is your spouse’s involvement with church? How do they feel about it?
• What professional supports, if any, do you have in place? Are there any additional ones you’d like to arrange? What is your response to the idea of professional counselling as a preventative measure?
• Do you have any ‘similar others’ in your life? Is there anyone who could fit that role for you, and vice versa?
• Have you fallen into the trap of confusing your identity with your role? How does that reveal itself? What gospel truths might you need to preach to yourself?

Send us a text

Podcast Disclaimer:

Please be aware that the opinions and viewpoints shared on this podcast are personal to me and my guests, and do not represent the stance of any institution. This podcast aims to present findings for open discussion and dialogue, inviting listeners to engage critically and draw their own conclusions. While the content serves informational purposes, it is not a substitute for professional advice. Thank you for joining me on this journey of exploration and conversation!

A message from Valerie as the next episodes get published.

Send us a text

Podcast Disclaimer:

Please be aware that the opinions and viewpoints shared on this podcast are personal to me and my guests, and do not represent the stance of any institution. This podcast aims to present findings for open discussion and dialogue, inviting listeners to engage critically and draw their own conclusions. While the content serves informational purposes, it is not a substitute for professional advice. Thank you for joining me on this journey of exploration and conversation!

The Trinity Network has its origin at Trinity Church Adelaide, which was established in 1836 . Paul and Sue Harrington share their story of 35 years in ministry with the network, which now consists of 14 churches across Adelaide and South Australia.

Dive into the Harringtons' candid thoughts about juggling ministry life and family, the connection that spouses need, and their reflections on the structures that help and hinder our churches, their leaders and their families from doing life and faith together.

Download my research report and reflections

Watch the video version of this podcast

Complete a Clergy Wellbeing Quiz here

Send us a text

Podcast Disclaimer:

Please be aware that the opinions and viewpoints shared on this podcast are personal to me and my guests, and do not represent the stance of any institution. This podcast aims to present findings for open discussion and dialogue, inviting listeners to engage critically and draw their own conclusions. While the content serves informational purposes, it is not a substitute for professional advice. Thank you for joining me on this journey of exploration and conversation!

Dave & Kathy Thurston have been married for over 40 years and have three grown up children. They have been in ministry in one form or another for nearly forty years. Five and a half years ago Dave and Kathy Thurston left Sydney and parish ministry to work in the Presbyterian Church of Queensland. Their brief was mentoring pastors and their wives, training other to be mentors, develop a post college training program as well as various other ventures. Six months ago, they returned to their three adult children and wider family but not to the inner west. They now live in Blackheath on two acres where God willing they will build a Christian Retreat centre.

They love working with their brothers and sisters in Christian ministry to be healthy and fruitful followers of Jesus.

They continue to train people to be mentors through Mentor Equipping Queensland

In this episode they share their story, their journey and they deepest longings for ministry to be joyful and sustainable. They share their wisdom on how mentoring, combined with spiritual development and health, plays a critical role in ministry. The episode takes a deep look into the importance of emotional awareness, spiritual maturity, and understanding our emotions under the guidance of Jesus for effective leadership.

Download my research report and reflections

Watch the video version of this podcast

Complete a Clergy Wellbeing Quiz here

Send us a text

Podcast Disclaimer:

Please be aware that the opinions and viewpoints shared on this podcast are personal to me and my guests, and do not represent the stance of any institution. This podcast aims to present findings for open discussion and dialogue, inviting listeners to engage critically and draw their own conclusions. While the content serves informational purposes, it is not a substitute for professional advice. Thank you for joining me on this journey of exploration and conversation!

TRIGGER WARNING: Please note that this episode discusses trauma and sexual violence which some listeners may find distressing or emotionally challenging. In Australia, If you require support, please contact Lifeline on 13 11 14 and/or 1800RESPECT.

One of the key findings in Valerie’s research was the levels of burnout and the personal violence experienced by women in ministry. Her guest in today’s episode is Rev Dr Megan Powell du Toit – ordained Baptist minister, Publishing Manager at the Australian College of Theology and co-host of the With All Due Respect podcast. In this candid episode, Megan offers an intimate perspective on the myriad of challenges and biases faced by women in the ministry. Our conversation explores the systemic issues prevalent in the religious arena, with a critical focus on the alarming underbelly of sexual assault and gender violence therein. We explore the impact of a woman's formative history in shaping her pastoral journey. As we wrap up, we delve into the ways we can support, amplify, and uplift the voices of women in ministry.

Download my research report and reflections

Watch the video version of this podcast

Complete a Clergy Wellbeing Quiz here

Send us a text

Podcast Disclaimer:

Please be aware that the opinions and viewpoints shared on this podcast are personal to me and my guests, and do not represent the stance of any institution. This podcast aims to present findings for open discussion and dialogue, inviting listeners to engage critically and draw their own conclusions. While the content serves informational purposes, it is not a substitute for professional advice. Thank you for joining me on this journey of exploration and conversation!

Imagine an environment where safety and well-being are prioritized, where trust and transparency are key, and conflicts are handled in a constructive manner. These are the ingredients of psychological safety. Psychological safety refers to a work environment where individuals feel comfortable taking risks, expressing their thoughts, and making mistakes without fear of punishment or humiliation. Psychosocial hazards are broader and pertain to all aspects of work design, organisational structures, and social dynamics that can lead to psychological or physical harm. This could include things like excessive workload, lack of role clarity, workplace bullying, and poor organisational culture.

They are separate and intertwined. Katharine Moore, an expert in workplace safety and health, joins me on the podcast to unwrap this very topic, based on findings from my clergy well-being and leadership survey.

From my survey, the following experiences of offensive behaviour experienced by clergy over the past 12 months were reported:

· Sexual harassment: 6%

· Threats of and actual violence: 8%

· Bullying: 31%

· Unpleasant teasing: 27%

· Conflicts and quarrels: 78%

· Gossip and slander: 53%

Clergy burnout was found to be related to the level of offensive behaviours experienced by clergy.

Through our discussion, we tackle the physical and psychological burdens of various job roles, the crucial role of job design and task rotation, and the complexities of budgets, governance, and compliance.


Katharine has built a strong reputation for her excellence in Safety and Injury Management. She believes in engaging & empowering workers to build a proactive safety culture in the workplace which will lead to greater levels of overall compliance.

She works at a Senior Leadership level in a multi-national corporate where she influences business decisions to create a workplace that is:

• Safe from physical and psychological harm
• Promotes whole-person wellbeing
• Fully accessible & inclusive
• Empowers team to meet their full potential

Our conversation delves into the heart of church conflict and consider how a lack of transparency may foster an environment ripe for bullying. By exploring the difference between psychosocial and psychological safety, we illuminate how churches can work alongside partner practices to foster a secure environment where team members feel safe providing feedback.



Download my research report and reflections

Watch the video version of this podcast

Complete a Clergy Wellbeing Quiz here

Send us a text

Podcast Disclaimer:

Please be aware that the opinions and viewpoints shared on this podcast are personal to me and my guests, and do not represent the stance of any institution. This podcast aims to present findings for open discussion and dialogue, inviting listeners to engage critically and draw their own conclusions. While the content serves informational purposes, it is not a substitute for professional advice. Thank you for joining me on this journey of exploration and conversation!