As President Trump and Elon Musk launch an assault on the federal bureaucracy, Will Marshall, the president of the Progressive Policy Institute, and Philip K. Howard, lawyer and author of “Everyday Freedom,” tell Margaret Hoover that the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) has the right diagnosis, but the wrong cure.

Speaking before a student audience at Hofstra University, Marshall and Howard agree that the federal bureaucracy is due for an overhaul and must be streamlined. But Howard, who has written several books about improving government, argues that efficiency means being more responsive to the needs of Americans. “We need to make government work better,” he says. “Not get rid of it.”

Marshall, who also supports reforming and modernizing the government, says that solutions to inefficiency in government are very different from the ones used in the private sector, and that Musk has brought the country to a constitutional crisis.

The two longtime reform advocates also reflect on past efforts to reorganize the federal government, discuss the importance of trust for any successful reform initiative, and take questions from Hofstra students.

Support for “Firing Line for Margaret Hoover” is provided by Robert Granieri, Vanessa and Henry Cornell, The Fairweather Foundation, Peter and Mark Kalikow, Cliff and Laurel Asness, The Meadowlark Foundation, Charles R. Schwab, Damon Button, Craig Newmark Philanthropies, The Philip I Kent Foundation and Al and Kathy Hubbard. Corporate funding is provided by Stephens Inc.