Jake Lenderman plays and records under the name MJ Lenderman. He put out his first album in 2019. In addition to his solo work, he’s been a member of the band Wednesday, and he’s also featured on the Waxahatchee hit song “Right Back to It." In September 2024, the fourth MJ Lenderman album came out. It’s called Manning Fireworks. The New Yorker named it the best album of the year, and Stereogum, Rolling Stone and Pitchfork all put it in their top ten. For this episode, I talked to Jake about one of the songs from that album, called “You Don’t Know the Shape I’m In.” The song itself took shape in a few different ways. Coming up, you’ll hear the way the song started as a demo, and then how that got fleshed out, and then how it got rebuilt, and then how Jake completely reimagined the whole thing.

For more info, visit songexploder.net/mj-lenderman.

My guest today is James Acaster, a comedian, author, musician, and interviewer. He's filmed comedy specials for HBO and Netflix, which are hilarious and high concept. His musical project, Temps, has released an album and an EP. He’s written multiple books, including one about how the year 2016 was the greatest year for music. James also co-hosts the food podcast Off Menu, with comedian Ed Gamble. And I've listened to more hours of Off Menu than any other podcast. James and Ed don't know it, but they're my best friends. And I have lured James out of the parasocial relationship that we have in my head and into this conversation with me, to talk about a song that had a profound effect on his life.

For more, visit songexploder.net/keychange.

You can listen to "Hey Ya!" by OutKast here.

Lucy Dacus has a new album coming out on March 28th, called Forever Is A Feeling. So, in the week before it comes out, I thought it could be nice to revisit her Song Exploder episode from 2021. It’s about the beautiful and brutally heartbreaking song "Thumbs," which I love. And since recording that episode, Lucy's won three Grammy awards as part of her band Boygenius, including Album of the Year. But back in 2021, I had a really nice afternoon talking to Lucy. She was the first guest to come over and record with me at my studio, in person, after COVID hit. So I have a lot of fond memories about this one, and I hope you’ll enjoy listening or re-listening to it with me.

Lucy Dacus is a singer and songwriter from Richmond, Virginia. She put out her first album in 2016, and in 2018 she formed the band Boygenius with Julien Baker and Phoebe Bridgers. In June 2021, she released her third album, Home Video, which includes this song, "Thumbs." The first time I heard it, I knew I wanted to ask Lucy about how and why she made it. After some COVID testing, we spoke in person here in Los Angeles. And she told me the story of how "Thumbs" took months and months to get right.

For more, visit songexploder.net/lucy-dacus.

The TV show Severance debuted on Apple TV+ in February 2022. It was created by writer Dan Erickson, and developed into a series by director and executive producer Ben Stiller. He directed the pilot and most of the episodes. After the first season came out, Severance was nominated for 14 Emmys, including Outstanding Drama Series, and it won two Emmys: for Main Title Design and for Musical Composition. I love this show, and the main title sequence is incredible. I was so excited to get to talk to the composer, Theodore Shapiro, about how he made the main title theme music. In this episode, you’ll hear how that theme first came into existence in a totally different form, and then, how Teddy re-imagined it to become the final version.

For more, visit songexploder.net/severance.

My guest today is Hanif Abdurraqib, a poet, cultural critic, and New York Times bestselling author of books like They Can't Kill us Until They Kill Us, Go Ahead in the Rain: Notes to A Tribe Called Quest, and A Little Devil in America, which won the Andrew Carnegie medal for nonfiction. I've been a guest on Hanif's podcast, Object of Sound, and I just love reading and hearing his thoughts about music. When I first started toying with the idea for this Key Change series, I was specifically excited about the idea that it could give me the chance to have Hanif on as a guest.

For more, visit songexploder.net/keychange.

You can listen to "Lost in the Supermarket" by The Clash here.

Sasami is a singer, songwriter and producer who grew up in Los Angeles. But now she’s based in Northern California, and as you’ll hear in this episode, that’s significant. Sasami went to school for classical French horn. She was in the band Cherry Glazerr, and she’s had a lot of collaborations with other artists on their projects and her own. Collaboration is at the heart of the song that I talked to her about for this episode. It’s called “In Love With A Memory,” and it features Clairo on vocals, and it was co-produced with Grammy-winning producer Rostam. The song is on Sasami’s third album, Blood on the Silver Screen, which is out March 2025. Coming up, you’ll hear the original voice memos that she recorded for this song back in the fall of 2022. You’ll also hear the demo she made in Garageband after that, and then how she and Rostam turned that demo into the final version, a duet with Clairo.

For more info, visit songexploder.net/sasami.

Kevin Barnes started of Montreal in 1996 in Athens, Georgia. The Sunlandic Twins came out in 2005; it was their seventh album. And I remember when that album came out, how it felt like they were suddenly everywhere. And the breakout song from that breakout album was “Wraith Pinned to the Mist and Other Games.” And so, for this episode, I spoke to Kevin Barnes about how that song came together, and what it meant to them then, and what it means to them now.

For more info, visit songexploder.net/of-montreal.

Key Change is a new conversation series within Song Exploder, where I talk to fascinating people about the music that's transformed them.

My first guest is Sophie Thatcher, an actor and musician whose credits include starring in the TV show Yellowjackets, the film Heretic, and the new movie Companion. I met Sophie through Companion, because I composed the score to the film, and she contributes vocals to a few of the tracks I wrote. For this episode, we discussed how "Waltz #1" by Elliott Smith shaped Sophie's tastes and work.

For more, visit songexploder.net/keychange.

You can listen to "Waltz #1" by Elliott Smith here.